Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1927

@elainekirk I bet you're right. I figured they must be busy being wined and dined.
by es 7/14/2011 5:33:12 PM

@es I think you hit it exactly.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 5:34:38 PM

Hmm what would opposition groups ask to be tested?
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 5:35:14 PM

Oh dear, the shiny new replacement joint seems to still be leaking...

Fukushima plant suffers a leak in water filtering [14 July, 2011]: www3.nhk.or.jp
"A system for decontaminating and recycling radioactive wastewater at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been halted again after operating in fits and starts.

Plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, found a leak through a broken plastic joint in a French-made facility on early Wednesday afternoon, forcing a shutdown for more than a day.

As of late Thursday afternoon, Tokyo Electric has not finished replacing the damaged polyvinyl chloride joint. The PVC joint, which was the cause of earlier leaks, is thought to be structurally too weak.

The company says the latest shutdown does not affect its operation to pump coolant into the reactors.

The system is designed to filter radioactive wastewater pooled in the basement of reactor buildings, and then sent the cleaned water back into the reactors as coolant.

A series of troubles since the start of operations in June has resulted in operation rates of only about 73 percent during the past week, far below the targeted 90.

Tokyo Electric considers the system critical in meeting its target of putting in place a stable reactor cooling system by July 17th. The date would mark the end of phase one in a timetable it has set for bringing the reactors under control."
by es 7/14/2011 5:41:31 PM

@es the first one was replaced with a steel end. I think this is another one that failed. Why did Areva use plastic joints on a high pressure system? I hope Toshiba's magic machine works better.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 5:45:35 PM

@lillymunster To be honest I can't keep up - feels like I'm in a bizarre and never-ending news loop!
PVC Joint Broke Off Completely in AREVA's System, in 100 to 150 Millisieverts/Hr Environment: ex-skf.blogspot.com

This [Italian] blog has some interesting comments re Sarry and how it should work: unico-lab.blogspot.com
by es 7/14/2011 5:56:26 PM

@es thats because you are in a bizarre never ending news loop. The Areva machine works and doesn't work so often nobody can keep track. TEPCO said they were injecting nitrogen in 3 Saturday now they are doing it today. It seems almost like a purposeful stream of pointless announcements to avoid actually telling people anything significant.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 5:58:20 PM

@es Toshiba seems to have a better thought out system. Hope it works.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 6:01:55 PM

@lillymunster Oh well, kinda glad it's not just me :o)
I wish Toshiba luck.
by es 7/14/2011 6:08:18 PM

just a thought but neither areva now toshiba are experts in water filtration systems are they? to be honest a water filtration business are used to filtering toxins and would probably be far better placed to fit a system
by elainekirk 7/14/2011 6:11:12 PM

Elaine, do you have details on this tweet? New Details Of Fukushima Workers Daily Dangers - One Worker Subjected to Spewing Radioactivity From Hydrogen Explosion in Reactor 1
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 6:17:13 PM

@lillymunster oooo I will look
by elainekirk 7/14/2011 6:18:29 PM

@lillymunster The other worker, whose internal exposure was 540 millisieverts, was working near an outside door that could not be shut completely when the reactor 1 hydrogen explosion occurred, spewing radioactive materials. search.japantimes.co.jp
by elainekirk 7/14/2011 6:22:08 PM

Anyone have an idea how I can determine the safe soil level for playgrounds? I tried some obvious google searches and got nothing. I am having a bit of brain lock.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 6:59:14 PM

@lillymunster Dunno, other than to point out that "safe soil levels of radiation for a playground" is such an oxymoron.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:02:19 PM

But I know what you mean, so maybe the search is for the bottom end of "known to be unsafe".
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:03:14 PM

back for a bit
by dean 7/14/2011 7:04:57 PM

This search seems to offer possibilities: scholar.google.com
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:05:49 PM

Too bad so many of the promising leads are only the abstracts.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:07:22 PM

@RadioGuy METI or whomever was declaring the child annual levels also declared playground & school soil max levels to keep kids under the set max level. I think it is rather a bogus benchmark but at least gives people a point of reference. I can't imagine having small children, living in an apartment and knowing your playgrounds are contaminated.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:07:50 PM

Hi Dean, have a the radiation handout thing about 80% done. Doing some formatting and terminology. Hope to have it ready for review tonight.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:08:33 PM

sounds excellent lilly
by dean 7/14/2011 7:08:53 PM

I hope they get away from messing with annual limits etc... and worry more on reduction in exposure through all the different kinds of contamination
by dean 7/14/2011 7:10:14 PM

www.pnas.org
High doses of ionizing radiation clearly produce deleterious consequences in humans, including, but not exclusively, cancer induction. At very low radiation doses the situation is much less clear, but the risks of low-dose radiation are of societal importance in relation to issues as varied as screening tests for cancer, the future of nuclear power, occupational radiation exposure, frequent-flyer risks, manned space exploration, and radiological terrorism. We review the difficulties involved in quantifying the risks of low-dose radiation and address two specific questions. First, what is the lowest dose of x- or γ-radiation for which good evidence exists of increased cancer risks in humans? The epidemiological data suggest that it is ≈10–50 mSv for an acute exposure and ≈50–100 mSv for a protracted exposure. Second, what is the most appropriate way to extrapolate such cancer risk estimates to still lower doses? Given that it is supported by experimentally grounded, quantifiable, biophysical arguments, a linear extrapolation of cancer risks from intermediate to very low doses currently appears to be the most appropriate methodology. This linearity assumption is not necessarily the most conservative approach, and it is likely that it will result in an underestimate of some radiation-induced cancer risks and an overestimate of others.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:10:37 PM

@dean I hope they stop pretending there's no problem and start addressing it.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:13:22 PM

I found some old documents off ENENews using Radioguy's search terms. The local govt.s started setting their own max levels so they are all over the place. I think I will put something generic like check with your local govt. for set exposure levels and to contact the in country groups that are working to protect children from radiation. They are going to be better equipped to give people that kind of advice.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:14:48 PM

the limits are all relative,, unless they will be used to FORCE action to keep things under some limit for dose... if I were in a prefecture political position.. I would set a level under the METI or other organizations level to be more proactive. THEN start to tracking people on free rad clinics etc... track schools and work places.. construction workers etc... and when I began to reach the limit.. I would initiate actions within the prefecture upon industry etc to lower the levels...

by dean 7/14/2011 7:18:41 PM

People have been dumping the contaminated soil out of their yards in the forest and in city parks. www.nuc.berkeley.edu
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:19:28 PM

@dean It's all the harder when you have so few reliable independent sources of rad data.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:20:03 PM

I would force the utilities in my prefecture to allow rad monitoring put up by the local govt on the stack discharge and effluents and make them reportable.. like having a department of environmental quality
by dean 7/14/2011 7:20:17 PM

@dean yea the whole current system is so full of holes as is the food testing. For all the paranoid planning the US and other countries have done over terrorism and the threat of a nuclear bomb and nobody has a system designed to put in place.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:20:58 PM

true Radio
by dean 7/14/2011 7:21:07 PM

@RadioGuy Did you see the spreadsheets of local govt. food testing. It is spotty but there is a bit of a start. I think the local governments are going to be key in all of this. They are making up for the national govt. inability to act.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:22:20 PM

@lillymunster , I found this site: www.umich.edu . Annual average exposure to terresetrial radiation for people living in the US seems: 28 mrem or 280 microSv.
I found interesting factoids on this page I did not know. For example indications are that there once existed a natural reactor in Africa.
by Peter Melzer 7/14/2011 7:24:17 PM

@Peter Melzer I read the natural reactor thing the other day, very interesting.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:28:27 PM

@lillymunster I saw that dumping story a couple days ago. Later that day I saw a link later to a map of Fuku region rad readings, and the highest spot on the map was in a park behind the Jr. High School. I wonder if that was a dump spot.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:31:41 PM

be back..
by dean 7/14/2011 7:35:49 PM

@lillymunster , I am glad I was not there at the time. Since there is no level, they should at least try to approximate the level that existed before March 11, which cannot be too different from, let us say 300 microSv/y. In the table of the link, the total is given as 3.6 milliSv/y. Bo yesterday posted he recorded 0.7 microSv/h at Hiroshima outdoors. This corresponds to 6.1 milliSv/y. Not so good, :(.
by Peter Melzer 7/14/2011 7:37:27 PM

@you , no safe level I wanted to say!
by Peter Melzer 7/14/2011 7:38:21 PM

@Peter Melzer that is the hard part where there are numbers flying around and really none of this is "safe".
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 7:44:22 PM

TEPCO deadline looms
The operator of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is aiming to meet its first stage deadline to bring the plant under control by injecting nitrogen into its No.3 reactor containment vessel. But a problematic wastewater system may delay their goal.

The Tokyo Electric Power Company started the injection on Thursday evening to prevent a hydrogen explosion.

The utility had already begun the procedure at the plant's No.1 and 2 reactors, but the work was delayed due to high radiation levels.

The injection is essential for the utility to complete the first step of its plan to bring the plant under the control by the target date of July 17th.

But a French-made system installed to recycle radioactive wastewater continues to work below its target capacity. The device is meant to decontaminate radioactive wastewater and send it back into the reactors as coolant. Tokyo Electric says the problem has been malfunctioning filters. www3.nhk.or.jp Afternoon all!
by LM 7/14/2011 7:49:41 PM

@LM Well, malfunctioning filters and spewing joints and fractured PVC piping...
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:53:16 PM

@lillymunster , so the people of Fukushima and elsewhere are at least entitled to get back to where they were before the accident.
by Peter Melzer 7/14/2011 7:53:45 PM

@Peter Melzer There's no way to fault parents for cleaning up their living environment as best they can to save their children. You can sure as hell fault TEPCO and GoJ for playing the denial card to the bitter end while their people are denied the chance to protect themselves. No official disposal stations for municipalities rad wastes? Oh come on.
by RadioGuy 7/14/2011 7:56:40 PM

@RadioGuy yes. Especially the people stuck in limbo where they can't evacuate and the levels are high. People have been left to their own devices because the govt and TEPCO want to live in denial a bit longer.

@LM - the workers are tweeting that TEPCO is making up these roadmaps and then leaving the workers to figure out how to make it happen rather than building the roadmap based on the planned work. They say it is repeatedly forcing them into unrealistic and dangerous situations where people could get high exposure.
by lillymunster 7/14/2011 8:01:03 PM