Japan Earthquake | Page 2247
@Peter Melzer Npp's net effect is going to be near to zero, as all this years in use show. Problem is water is disappearing by ANOTHER cause.by estacion 8/26/2011 2:14:02 PM
@lillymunster , the operator must have an estimate on the evaporation. They also must know how much water is released.by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 2:16:07 PM- @estacion , no doubt. Otherwise the lake would run dry. However, it is also fed by streams.by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 2:17:30 PM
No webcam found. So is the missing information how much is being released as steam?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 2:19:12 PM- @lillymunster , they must know how much water they release into the lake.by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 2:23:34 PM
- @Peter Melzer: I guess the supply channels still work, but if fact of 22 inchs drop is correct, then net effect in lake are going to be negative, taking into account all sources of water entering and leaving water.by estacion 8/26/2011 2:26:38 PM
- So this lead for a near dried lake in some weeks => How are they going to cooling the NPP then?by estacion 8/26/2011 2:30:10 PM
do we know where the intake is? it won't be at the bottom will it I wonder how much the lake can drop before the intake is compromisedby elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:31:15 PM
@lillymunster Dominion says that the flow of water into the lake was "disrupted during the power outage". It'd be good to know more about the extent of this disruption, and whether or not it is ongoing since power has been restored.by es 8/26/2011 2:31:16 PM- what is hard to believe is that nrc havent got an update surely the system requires that regular updates are passed to the agency until normal operation resumes? and dropping lake levels cannot be normal operation?by elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:33:02 PM
- @es: flow of water into the lake was "disrupted during the power outage" => flow of water off the lake was disrupted, too.by estacion 8/26/2011 2:33:10 PM
- @estacion Yes, presumably. The reports have only mentioned the 'into' part.by es 8/26/2011 2:36:29 PM
- The proposed site is adjacent to the currently operating NAPS Units 1 and 2. The water sourcefor the proposed units on the ESP site is the impoundment of the North Anna River, referred toas Lake Anna. Lake Anna currently serves as the principal water source for the two existingunits, both of which use once-through cooling systems to dissipate heat from the turbinecondenser. webcache.googleusercontent.comby elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:39:04 PM
- So what are they doing. It disrupted water being put back into the lake. How much are they pulling off the lake then? Is it all going up in steam and does this account for the 22in water drop?
Even if this is a scenario where all the water missing did go up in steam, doesn't this mean that the lake is insufficient to supply the reactors in the event of something unusual happening like an accident or emergency shutdown?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 2:41:40 PM - @lillymunster: No. What it means is there are cracks in bottom's lake. I'm pretty sure this scenario has not been taken into account in their emergency plans.by estacion 8/26/2011 2:45:51 PM
- @lillymunster if the course of the river has been disturbed by the forming of a tributary that is reducing the river flow into the lake then they have problems. I assume by one through that water diverts from the river into the lake then goes through the plant and exits downstream in the riverby elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:46:15 PM
- I found this description of the cooling process on their site: dom.com . There are no numbers, but they make it sound like almost all 2 million gallons are returned to the lake. On another page, there is a statement that the water is taken in from the bed of the James River. I presume that means the bottom of the lake. A further search term could be Waste Heat Treatment Facility (WHTF).by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 2:48:54 PM
- @lillymunster in Iceland they know where the fault line is as the crack keeps growing but they still have to watch it closely a few months ago a walker noticed a very small crack and due to an odd noise or something checked it out and that small 'hole ' in the ground is cavenous beneath and this could happen under the manmade lake anna the quake has opened the surface and water is rushing downby elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:49:31 PM
- @elainekirk: NPP take the water of the lake and returns to the lake laterby estacion 8/26/2011 2:49:40 PM
- @estacion tyby elainekirk 8/26/2011 2:50:02 PM
- @elainekirk From your link, 'the subsurface beneath the ESP site consists of a single aquifer that belongs to the Piedmont Physiographic Province aquifer system'. estacion probably knows all about this but I looked up Piedmont Physiographic Province and read this: "All the formations in the Piedmont portion of the petition area contain little primary (intergranular) porosity and therefore transmit water through secondary openings along cleavage planes, joints, fractures, and faults (NJDEP 1985, Carswell and Rooney, 1976; Vechiolli and Palmer, 1962). Due to increasing pressure, openings decrease in size and number with depth until there is no appreciable flow. Fracture closure has been documented in the Brunswick at depths between three-hundred to four-hundred feet (300-400') (NJDEP, 1987)." www.epa.govby es 8/26/2011 2:53:25 PM
- @estacion I think your likely right, trying to make sure we rule out all "normal" causes for the missing water. If there was a benign cause for the water loss it proves the water supply to the plant is insufficient. If it is something else like a crack in the lake or leak in the dam it is a critical flaw and that reactor set needs to be shut down permanently and an alternative water source found now.by lillymunster 8/26/2011 2:53:28 PM
- @es Yep, but they have had a significant EQ, three days ago?...by estacion 8/26/2011 2:58:43 PM
- @estacion Yepby es 8/26/2011 2:59:55 PM
- What piece of information would be most useful to make a definitive determination?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:02:19 PM
- @lillymunster: Yes. But key question here is time. What first are going to occur, enough termal decay or no enough water caudal to acquire shoot off?by estacion 8/26/2011 3:03:18 PM
- @lillymunster: Lake water level monitorig, to me.by estacion 8/26/2011 3:05:04 PM
- Who would monitor the lake level?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:05:20 PM
- Hidrology authorities?by estacion 8/26/2011 3:06:12 PM
- Have they values online?by estacion 8/26/2011 3:06:44 PM
- no clue if this is accurate data, it doesn't cite the source. anna.uslakes.infoby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:07:05 PM
- dominion brochure on the lake www.dom.comby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:08:20 PM
- The 2 million gallon figure is not accurate: When the station is at full
operation, about 2 million gallons per minute of
water will pass through the station
They are not at full operation so this number would not be correct.by lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:09:06 PM - Normal fluctuations
experienced to date have been between 249
feet and 251 feet, however maximum water
levels of 255 feet or low water levels of 242 feetby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:09:39 PM - During refueling outages – typically
one month in duration in the spring or fall – the
circulating water pumps may be turned off on the
outage unit, resulting in a temporary water level
decrease of about 8.5 inchesby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:11:03 PM - This statement taken from here www.tnqtn.com is strange: "Cooling water for the once-through cooling system is drawn through a channel dredged in the bottom of the James River." Should be the North Anna River, no?
P.S: The lake temps are good for alligators.by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 3:11:56 PM - anna.uslakes.info has crystal ball. They are monitoring already into the future. :-)by estacion 8/26/2011 3:11:57 PM
- @estacion they must be using estimates for the season rather than actual levelsby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:12:27 PM
- @Peter Melzer I wondered about that also. Does the James feed into the lake area?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:12:59 PM
- there are some drawings here trying to find more pbadupws.nrc.govby elainekirk 8/26/2011 3:14:27 PM
- Dominion has daily water level & temp here www.dom.comby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:15:36 PM
- @lillymunster , I mixed it up. On that page I cite they provide info on Surry npp as well. Sorry,:)by Peter Melzer 8/26/2011 3:16:40 PM
- Dominion took the plant out of both alert and event status by the 24th? dom.mediaroom.comby lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:17:42 PM
- @lillymunster: www.dom.com that could be useful, too bad you do not have archive, more work to do.by estacion 8/26/2011 3:19:54 PM
- @estacion archive of the water & temp page or the media announcement page?by lillymunster 8/26/2011 3:21:36 PM
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