Japan Earthquake | Page 2286
good video,,, I'm watching it Edano, seems like the containment head is bolted on so it would have to really increase in pressure to leakby dean 8/31/2011 6:16:44 PM
@Edano :-)by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:27:08 PM
@Edano, ah! The secret path to USTREAM links! Thanks!by Ian 8/31/2011 6:27:49 PM- @dean If the elevation drawing we have is accurate there is a thin concrete lip that juts out where the containment cap screws down into. There are lots of bolts holding it down but the stability that lip seemed questionable.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:28:28 PM
Ian in the meantime I found the link: www.ustream.tvby Peter Melzer 8/31/2011 6:29:56 PM
containment cap
by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:30:15 PM- @ lilly.. I was watching the video which is so far interesting, however, this isn't the first LOCA in the world...... one thing I want to know is .. when they put the containment cap on is there a gasketby dean 8/31/2011 6:30:35 PM
another view
by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:31:01 PM- @dean In all the TEPCO etc. documents we dug through I remember finding details about the gasket on the RPV cap. I don't remember finding a reference or seeing one in anything. That doesn't mean there isn't one. Everything was focused on the importance of proper sealing of the RPV. Could we tell from a photo into the open reactor well with the containment cap off? Would there possible be a tell tale sign of a gasket having been used?by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:33:06 PM
- I thought the next presenter is talking about this gasket, Dean.by Peter Melzer 8/31/2011 6:33:55 PM
- @ lilly we may be able to tell but I"m looking up some things now to ry and get an answerby dean 8/31/2011 6:34:05 PM
- oh crap.. I have to run forgot my eye exam.. be back laterby dean 8/31/2011 6:35:17 PM
- Hi, somme news of the french EPR... In Le Monde: "Flamanville: poor workmanship in the construction" with google translate: translate.google.frby Olivier 8/31/2011 6:36:00 PM
- @lillymunster, best illustration I've seen of the cap area! But I still can't resolve it perfectly with what we see at Unit 3 here, especially on the closest view : www.youtube.com There seems to be thin metal strucutre that isn't accounted for in the illustrations I've seen.
by Ian 8/31/2011 6:37:26 PM - And the yesterday's declaration of our prime mininister: "François Fillon reiterated Monday, August 29 the "intangible commitment" of the government to ensure the safety of nuclear power French and challenged "Manichean approaches" on the subject during a visit to the plant of Bugey (Ain)." in Le Monde translate.google.frby Olivier 8/31/2011 6:39:01 PM
- @Ian what structure are you looking at, that yellow upright panel?by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:40:54 PM
- @Olivier I heard that plant was full of problems. What are they going to do with it if the concrete is flawed?by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:43:14 PM
R4 inside - containment cap?
by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:44:01 PM- Based on the height I think that is the bolt array for the containment cap.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 6:44:32 PM
- @lillymunster, it's right here www.youtube.com The outer portion of the well wall appears to be a metal strucutre with a lip that bends at 90˚ flat to the floor. But the schematic makes it seem like we should be seeing concrete slabs there.by Ian 8/31/2011 6:47:00 PM
- @lillymunster, I think maybe it's what Arthur called the 'wedding cake'.by Ian 8/31/2011 6:48:44 PM
Radioactive cars to return to Japan
A Russian judge has ordered the return to Japan of five used cars because they are radioactive, the Interfax news agency reports.
Government inspectors in the Pacific port city Nakhodka found the cars' exteriors had been exposed to radioactive materials and were emitting unsafe levels of gamma and beta rays.
It was not possible to determine how the cars had been irradiated, the report said.
Russian border troops in June identified six vehicles emitting radiation at three to six times safe levels, and subsequently ordered their return to the Japanese port of Toyama.
The used cars were part of a 170-vehicle shipment imported by a businessman on the Russian Pacific coast island of Sakhalin, according to news reports.
Russia's government in March ordered intensified radiation checks of imported Japanese goods after an earthquake and tsunami damaged the Fukushima nuclear power station.
Japanese-made used cars are extremely popular in Russia's Far East because of their low price and the availability of spare parts.
www.businessspectator.com.auby joniver 8/31/2011 7:00:32 PM- @Ian hmm I think that may be the RPV bolts... The water might be distorting the actual height. I know there is a connecting shroud between the concrete containment edge and the RPV from looking at images. I don't know if it is there to just hold water or if it has any structural backing. The containment caps are really wide so the bolt array for those could be along the edge of the round pool. IIRC the yellow containment cap has the bolts on it, rather than leaving them behind like some on the reactor cap are.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 7:22:00 PM
- @lillymunster, thanks for your thought! A curious detail is how the steam at that point I pointed to is coming out, it's not exactly from the rim edge, but seemingly from under the floor level, back in and behind the exposed surfaces. www.youtube.comby Ian 8/31/2011 7:58:26 PM
@Ian I remember there was a lot of talk on the physics forum about the weak point on R3 being the concrete lip where the containment cap bolts in. You can see it in that side view below, and on that numbered illustration it's marked 9.by RadioGuy 8/31/2011 8:20:55 PM
@RadioGuy, I think the seeming lower-down source of the steam at the NW edge of the well-cap area is consistent with forces being projected therefrom and into the 4th floor that blasted out the NW corner causing the damage into the 4th floor seen at the NW corner. iangoddard.com
by Ian via Iangoddard 8/31/2011 8:43:27 PM- hello in the night
@Ian - thanks for pointing to leakspinner - I'm so glad he's well and back again :)
@RadioGuy - the Wikipedia-links to WorldNuclearIndustryStatusReport are updated and enhanced now :)by Vivre 8/31/2011 9:03:09 PM - @lillymunster. Another information about EPR in Le Monde: The EPR, chronicles of a project bogged down. translate.google.frby Olivier 8/31/2011 9:13:57 PM
- @Olivier THanks, might be worth doing an article. It is amazing how many problematic reactors or projects there are when you start looking around. There is one in the US south that sat for years half finished, had structural concerns and the company started scavenging components off it. They now want to resume work on it? I would hope with the EPR project the bad concrete would either end it or require them to tear that part down and start over.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 9:29:39 PM
Scosche RDTX pro Portable Radiation Detector for iPhone Heads to Japan
technabob.comby Panserbjorne9 8/31/2011 9:30:15 PM
www.houseoffoust.com
www.houseoffoust.com
@Ian okay, i made a first try on the pressure zoom for #2 & #3 Core A. i'm not very happy with it, i will have to make it even bigger in extra pics, but this will take more time. the timeline (x axis) is two pixels per reading now. a white column means there was no reading. I'm still not sure if we see a core breach or the safety valve opened.by Edano via Houseoffoust 8/31/2011 9:34:50 PM
www.houseoffoust.com
www.houseoffoust.com
@Ian okay, i made a first try on the pressure zoom for #2 & #3 Core A. i'm not very happy with it, i will have to make it even bigger in extra pics, but this will take more time. the timeline (x axis) is two pixels per reading now. a white column means there was no reading. I'm still not sure if we see a core breach or the safety valve opened.by Edano via Houseoffoust 8/31/2011 9:34:50 PM- at least, you can see more details now.by Edano 8/31/2011 9:36:39 PM
- @Panserbjorne9 $349 ouch, you can buy a hand held detector for about that. IIRC the kickstarter group is shooting for $50 a unit on theirs.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 9:37:33 PM
- I will be working on site updates the rest of the week so the group page may look funny as I finish things up. The pulldown menus across the top are in process, most of the content and pages can still be found in the category links and other navigation in the mean time. The new theme added a headline, feature and most viewed section with some room for other sections of content. So the page is still totally useable, just have to finish some of the window dressing.by lillymunster 8/31/2011 9:45:02 PM
www.houseoffoust.com
@lillymunster look at the #3 water level. it seems tepco tries really hard to fill it with water. it rises every day, but any major earthquake makes the vessel loose it again ! :)by Edano via Houseoffoust 8/31/2011 9:47:26 PM- btw there is no effect on the temperature.by Edano 8/31/2011 9:50:29 PM
@Edano I reckon these two quakes had some effect on the earlier readings too:
18:56 19 March 2011 Northern Ibaraki Prefecture M6.1 depth 20 km
07:12 23 March 2011 Southeastern Fukushima Prefecture M6.0 depth 10 km
unit.aist.go.jpby es 8/31/2011 9:58:52 PM- @es ty, i will check that. but there is a major problem with the quakes in march:
6.3 Fri, Jun 3 2011 10:05 at epicenter usc0003ych
6.2 Sat, May 14 2011 8:35 at epicenter usc0003etn
6.1 Fri, May 6 2011 0:58 at epicenter usc000365q
6.0 Sat, Apr 23 2011 19:12 at epicenter usc0002xfh
6.1 Thu, Apr 21 2011 22:37 at epicenter usc0002w98
6.0 Thu, Apr 21 2011 11:54 at epicenter usc0002w18
6.1 Thu, Apr 14 2011 5:57 at epicenter usc0002q0d
6.0 Tue, Apr 12 2011 14:07 at epicenter usc0002p47
6.2 Tue, Apr 12 2011 8:08 at epicenter usc0002nzx
6.6 Mon, Apr 11 2011 17:16 at epicenter usc0002n9v
6.1 Sat, Apr 9 2011 21:57 at epicenter usc0002map
7.1 Thu, Apr 7 2011 23:32 at epicenter usc0002ksa 512
6.2 Thu, Mar 31 2011 16:15 at epicenter usc0002fj4
6.0 Wed, Mar 30 2011 14:29 at epicenter usc0002emx
6.1 Tue, Mar 29 2011 19:54 at epicenter usc0002dr3
6.1 Mon, Mar 28 2011 7:23 at epicenter usc0002cqa
6.4 Fri, Mar 25 2011 20:36 at epicenter usc0002bc9
6.1 Thu, Mar 24 2011 17:21 at epicenter usc0002ab5
6.1 Wed, Mar 23 2011 0:03 at epicenter usc00028vy
6.6 Tue, Mar 22 2011 19:44 at epicenter usc00028qz
6.4 Tue, Mar 22 2011 18:19 at epicenter usc00028qt
6.6 Tue, Mar 22 2011 17:18 at epicenter usc00028pe
6.1 Sat, Mar 19 2011 18:56 at epicenter usc00026q2
6.1 Thu, Mar 17 2011 13:13 at epicenter usc00024xx
6.0 Wed, Mar 16 2011 12:52 at epicenter usc00023zp
6.1 Wed, Mar 16 2011 1:23 at epicenter usc00023hu
6.2 Tue, Mar 15 2011 22:31 at epicenter usc00023fx
6.0 Tue, Mar 15 2011 18:49 at epicenter usc00023e1
6.0 Mon, Mar 14 2011 16:12 at epicenter usc00022er
6.0 Sun, Mar 13 2011 20:37 at epicenter usc00021qb
6.2 Sun, Mar 13 2011 11:23 at epicenter usc00021f5 159
6.2 Sun, Mar 13 2011 10:26 at epicenter usc00021dt 157
6.1 Sun, Mar 13 2011 8:24 at epicenter usc00021aj 153
6.3 Sun, Mar 13 2011 7:12 at epicenter usc000218h 150
6.0 Sun, Mar 13 2011 3:19 at epicenter usc00020y7 144
6.4 Sat, Mar 12 2011 22:15 at epicenter usc00020na 137
6.1 Sat, Mar 12 2011 19:53 at epicenter usc00020fv 131
6.8 Sat, Mar 12 2011 11:47 at epicenter usc0001zv3 82
6.2 Sat, Mar 12 2011 10:46 at epicenter usc0001zv9 75
6.0 Sat, Mar 12 2011 10:34 at epicenter usc0001zub 73
6.3 Sat, Mar 12 2011 5:11 at epicenter usc0001z5z 37
6.6 Sat, Mar 12 2011 4:46 at epicenter usc0001z4n 36
6.1 Sat, Mar 12 2011 4:02 at epicenter usc0001z2t 34
6.2 Sat, Mar 12 2011 3:59 at epicenter usc0001z2a 33
6.2 Sat, Mar 12 2011 0:13 at epicenter usc0001yib 20
6.5 Fri, Mar 11 2011 20:36 at epicenter usc0001y4u 8
6.0 Fri, Mar 11 2011 19:10 at epicenter usc0001xy1 4
6.1 Fri, Mar 11 2011 17:31 at epicenter usc0001xsi
6.5 Fri, Mar 11 2011 17:19 at epicenter usc0001xqp
6.2 Fri, Mar 11 2011 18:15 at epicenter usc0001xqx
6.2 Fri, Mar 11 2011 17:12 at epicenter usc0001xq3
6.1 Fri, Mar 11 2011 16:28 at epicenter usc0001xnb
6.1 Fri, Mar 11 2011 17:25 at epicenter usc0001xmm
6.3 Fri, Mar 11 2011 16:14 at epicenter usc0001xlz
6.3 Fri, Mar 11 2011 15:57 at epicenter usc0001xka
6.3 Fri, Mar 11 2011 16:48 at epicenter usc0001xjt
7.1 Fri, Mar 11 2011 16:25 at epicenter usc0001xig
7.9 Fri, Mar 11 2011 15:15 at epicenter usc0001xhz
6.4 Fri, Mar 11 2011 15:07 at epicenter usc0001xhx
6.4 Fri, Mar 11 2011 15:06 at epicenter usc0001xh0
9.0 Fri, Mar 11 2011 14:46 at epicenter
:-)by Edano 8/31/2011 10:02:33 PM - Are those all near Fuku?by lillymunster 8/31/2011 10:05:46 PM
- @lillymunster yes, all east coast honshu, but not everyone close to fuku.by Edano 8/31/2011 10:07:06 PM
- i wanted to add all of them to the plots, but you cannot see an effect with a quake every some hours, so it made no sense. there was enough chaos in march.by Edano 8/31/2011 10:09:13 PM
- @Edano Totally understandable, it would be unreadable. The link suggests the inland and coastal quakes e.g., close to the plant on the 19th and the 23rd, may have had more of an impact.by es 8/31/2011 10:14:44 PM
- @es cool link, i will check the nearest.by Edano 8/31/2011 10:18:33 PM
Figure 1. M > 6 inland earthquakes following the 11 March 2011 mainshock (as of 19 March)
Epicenters in the mainshock source area (other than (1)-(5)) are from JMA preliminary data issued by 13 March.
The focal mechanism solutions of events (1)-(5) are from the Global CMT Catalog.by Edano via Unit.aist.go.jp 8/31/2011 10:18:45 PM
Japan Earthquake | Page 2286
- Who's Blogging
-
hudebnik
alblee
UKVal
Oliver (ScribbleLive)
Jonathan Keebler
kaykodh
PKelley
Markfm
Angie
Deb
Mid Valley- Pedro Jesus
Matt (ScribbleLive)
George Gibb
elainekirk- lillymunster
- dean
bo- Edano
IanGoddard