I think it is. TEPCO announced they have to install a new electrical panel for the common pool because the current one is in the basement and the basement has water in it. They never seem to tell anyone the temp. of the common pool. It looks like steam around that building rather than fog. The reactors look pretty clear.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:35:03 PM
good morning to every one
by dean 9/20/2011 12:39:21 PM
Hi Dean!
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:40:27 PM
@ lilly.. dang.. isn't that illegal for someone to do that? grrrrrrrrrrr
by dean 9/20/2011 12:40:27 PM
@dean I am going to contact Wikispaces but I don't know if they can do anything. Even if we had all the resources elsewhere I am not amused we could have lost the historical record.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:41:14 PM
maybe it tells us that what we put out there is being read by alot of people and exposing things... I am here for awhile @ lilly.. what would you like me to research or review? :)
by dean 9/20/2011 12:42:50 PM
@dean I did some updated work on the corium flow theory, added some images and made some rough guesses on lateral flow distance. Some feedback on that would be great.
www.houseoffoust.comI will go dig through other things from yesterday that came up.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:47:00 PM
I'm right on it @ lilly, what I saw yesterday was excellent
by dean 9/20/2011 12:47:55 PM
@ lilly, are the fuel estimates not counting SFP so the focus is on what was available for fuel melt?
by dean 9/20/2011 12:50:38 PM
@dean yes.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:51:19 PM
@Vivre thanks for finding that. Will see what I can do to restore and lock it down.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:55:29 PM
@Dean, not sure if you saw this from last night, Peter posted. It seems like it might give some hints.
Just a small excerpt from venting at unit 3 (things were similarly scary at the other units) from NISA Sep. report to IAEA page II-104: "At 11:17 on March13, it was confirmed that the S/C vent valve (AO valve) large valve was closed again due to the pressure leak, a driving cylinder was replaced, and an opening operation was performed; at 12:30 on March 13, the S/C vent valve (AO valve) large valve was made open again.
When workers went to the spot (torus chamber) to maintain the S/C vent valve (AO valve) large valve in the open status for the purpose of preventing closure of the valve, it was so hot in the torus chamber, and also there was vibration due to the SRV operation that the valve was unable to maintain open.
At around 14:31 on March 13, the measurement results were reported of 300 mSv/h or higher on the north side of the reactor building double door (the inside was white and hazy), and 100 mSv/h on the south side. Also, at 15:28 on March 13, the dose in the Main Control Room of Unit 3 was 12 mSv/h, so that the people on duty evacuated to the side of the Main Control Room."
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:56:10 PM
it's a very good start @ lilly, some word smithing on the first paragraph would be good and then maybe some breakout discussions with alittle more detail on what the bottom head looks like from penetration standpoint, an assumption on the annular space around the tube penetrations where the seals are for potential flow paths. also an estimate of how big the corium blob would potentially be if it contained all the fuel, control rods and other metal debris (show this as the colored section up the walls of the vessel to see areas where lateral leakage may have occured.
by dean 9/20/2011 12:56:50 PM
@dean thanks. That all makes sense. Will see what I can find, I think I have an RPV drawing somewhere with details.
Any idea how I would convert fuel tonnage into a liquid volume?
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 12:58:16 PM
I will research that @lilly
by dean 9/20/2011 1:00:21 PM
@ lilly, maybe some illustrations from the TMI would be a start as they estimated the volume of fuel melt and illustrated it in the vessel
by dean 9/20/2011 1:01:09 PM
@dean Is DOE probably the best source for TMI or is there a university or someone that has more info?
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:05:19 PM
a start would be to start with the reactor vessel and then impose the fuel region of the core which is tightly spaced. then take that fuel region and overlay the immage at the bottom of the reactor vessel so the edges touch the vessel wall. I ball park guestimate would be that the fuel bundle would shrink by approximated 40% or so and then add in perhaps 10% for core components that would have melted to form the corium.
by dean 9/20/2011 1:06:48 PM
@ lilly.. NRC is the best source for the TMI and some good searches on google.. "corium size at TMI" as example
by dean 9/20/2011 1:07:20 PM
@All, I contacted wikispaces and asked if they can restore the wikispaces pages off of an old copy. The cached version Vivre found is dated Sunday and everything looks fine there. I looked in the history of activity and it does not show anyone logging in on the 18th to make changes. If wikispaces can't overwrite the pages I can manually copy them all back in. I am thinking we need to lock those pages down in some way so they can't be edited or deleted by just anyone.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:07:38 PM
@dean thanks. Will see what I can find.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:07:52 PM
or.. corium pool size
by dean 9/20/2011 1:08:16 PM
lock them down lilly
by dean 9/20/2011 1:08:46 PM
www.osti.gov example @ lilly.. and it has some interesting statements about the crust formed and then the fracturing of the crust... we've been talking about that where the FUKU corium crust is broken by subsequent EQ's of varying magnitudes
by dean 9/20/2011 1:10:53 PM
www.osti.gov another write up with some points
by dean 9/20/2011 1:14:26 PM
www.osti.gov @ lilly .. this is a good write up that I remember reading back then.
by dean 9/20/2011 1:17:04 PM
@lilly,, I always start at the end with the conclusions and recommendation then go to the opening summary and then sight read through the paper to glean ideas out
by dean 9/20/2011 1:20:12 PM
@M.I.A. thanks, found the section on debris bed in it.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:23:37 PM
www.inl.gov good diagrams
by dean 9/20/2011 1:23:48 PM
Will see what I can dig out of all these documents and can then bring back notes and technical info for everyone to discuss.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:25:01 PM
sounds good lilly, I will try to find something to better estimate the size of the corium
by dean 9/20/2011 1:26:48 PM
NRC holding a public meeting on N. Anna's Inspections on Oct 3rd in VA
The meeting is scheduled for Monday, Oct. 3, at 1 p.m. EDT at the North Anna Nuclear
Information Center, 1022 Haley Drive in Mineral, Va. The meeting will include members of the
NRC inspection team as well as managers from NRC headquarters in Rockville, Md., and the
Region II office in Atlanta. After the results are presented to Dominion, the plant’s operator,
NRC staff will be available to answer questions from media representatives and the public.
Via NRC emails
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:38:59 PM
I wish we could be at that meeting @ lilly.. peter, elaine, Edano you me and others.. .
by dean 9/20/2011 1:43:45 PM
@dean I would love a chance to ask a few questions. :-) Peter was interested in knowing about these meetings since they live nearby. We should make sure he knows in case he wants to attend. It doesn't look like they will try to broadcast this one.
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:46:45 PM
@ lilly.. look at the one posted for tomorrow, NRC TO DISCUSS INDUSTRIES POST FUKUSHIMA EFFORTS , SEPT 21 in ROCKVILLE, MD.... I think I will send an email and request a transcript of that one
by dean 9/20/2011 1:50:19 PM
that meeting contactis Amy Bonaccorso, RSTOL_F.Resource@nrc.gov
by dean 9/20/2011 1:52:45 PM
I must depart for the office.. will come back on there...
by dean 9/20/2011 1:52:56 PM
@dean I must have missed that one. Is it going to be broadcast or a closed meeting?
by lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:53:43 PM
it says simulcast I think @ lilly.. but not sure how that works..
by dean 9/20/2011 1:54:08 PM
@dean It looks like it is teleconference only. If you can get a transcript that would be great. If they email it to you we could put it on line and do a synopsis of any important points.
www.nrc.govby lillymunster 9/20/2011 1:56:25 PM
pbadupws.nrc.gov @ lilly.. one last doc to scan through.. very good figures and information.. it's kind of large but good
by dean 9/20/2011 1:58:48 PM
I will try to get it @ lilly.. be back in a bit
by dean 9/20/2011 1:59:08 PM
@lilly - fukushimafaq from google-cache with all links
hudebnik
alblee
UKVal
Oliver (ScribbleLive)
Jonathan Keebler
Matt (ScribbleLive)
kaykodh
PKelley
Markfm
Angie
Edano
Deb
Mid Valley
George Gibb
elainekirk
bo
IanGoddard