Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2414

houseoffoust.com thsi is the shot that shows the equipment pool that isn't seen much. Dunno how unit 1 is different from 3, which has pretty obvious dry equipment pool next to the steam spout.
by artnuke via Houseoffoust 9/27/2011 4:45:23 PM

This is a useful collection of media reports fukushimanewsresearch.wordpress.com though it seemed to've died on Aug 23, it seems comprehensive and with it I tracked down a media report (link to original source) that was hard to find otherwise.
by Ian 9/27/2011 4:58:36 PM

On September 26, 2011, we conducted sampling of the seawater near the
intake canal of Units 1 to 4 of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
and analyzed the samples. As a result, some radioactive materials were
detected as described in the appendix. www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 5:21:20 PM

We collected samples from sub-drains (subsurface water obtained and
managed in the site) near the turbine buildings of Fukushima Daiichi
Nuclear Power Station collected on September 26, and conducted nuclide
analysis. As a result, radioactive materials were detected as shown in the
appendix.
www.tepco.co.jp
and this one which also shows 131 on the 1st of September
www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 5:24:17 PM

We seriously accepted NISA's directions with sincerity and reviewed all
values of results of nuclide analyses as object of investigation,
investigated to determine causes and develop preventive measures.
The followings are the details of causes and preventive measures.

(Result of review of all values)
○Addition of corrected information after we announced on August 30
-Incorrect description of density limit by the announcement of reactor
regulation (1 part was newly added)
*corresponding to (1) in the corrigenda
-Errors on measured value (3 parts were newly added)
*corresponding to (2) in the corrigenda
-Errors on scaling factors (12 parts were newly added)
*corresponding to (3) in the corrigenda
○Result of nuclide analyses in other than confirmed reports (Pu and Sr in
the soil)
-Errors on transcriptions of results of measurement and calculation
sheets of evaluation (11 parts were newly added)
*corresponding to (2) in the corrigenda
○Corrected information on measurement conditions
-Incorrect description of time of sample collection (1 part was newly
added)
-Describing ways of units (16 parts were newly added)
-Incorrect description of directions of places of sample collection (2
parts were newly added)
*corresponding to (6) in the corrigenda

Due to the result of review of all values, we have corrected 140 parts in
total including ones we announced August 30. www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 5:27:48 PM

@Edano Cold shutdown is meaningless when the fuel is a pile of uranium
pellets that is producing and releasing fresh amounts of iodine and
cesium that is being released into the air in visible clouds of steam.
They have no plan that can stop continuing criticality in any amount
of time, or for even isolating air and water pollution in any amount
of time. A structure like the outer shell at #1 could in theory
capture a lot of the contaminated steam, but there has never been
provision for isolating any of the steam which has been going off
since day zero. It is unclear that adding water has done anything to
prevent damage to the containment floor, but it has certainly produced
a lot of contaminated steam.
by artnuke 9/27/2011 5:39:24 PM

Did water injection do any good? What would have happened if there were no water at all, would it have caused more damage to the containment (as if they are doing any good now)? We know the seawater produced a lot of sulfur and the steam helped the iodine and cesium get out. What are plans at US plants for a power-out scenario when fuel has already melted down, do they flood with water or leave it alone?
by artnuke 9/27/2011 5:39:25 PM

@elainekirk I think someone is getting some pressure from METI. :-)
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 5:40:07 PM

@artnuke As far as I know there is no standard policy. US reactors have a bit more stringent oversight in that the NRC will tell them to do something rather than ask them like METI does. I would guess reactors in the US actually have emergency manuals. TEPCO says they have emergency manuals but won't cough them up. It would seem more logical that a power company would have to submit their emergency manual to the oversight agency. Lack of a good emergency plan is what got Ft. Calhoun in initial trouble with the NRC but much of that new concern was post 9-11.

Water injection? There was a point where people were wondering that. It hasn't seemed to stop the meltdowns and now there is tons of radioactive water. If it helped might end up being a question answered 10 years down the road when they try to pull out fuel.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 5:43:59 PM

i think the water question is nonsense. a reactor without cooling will completely melt in a few hours. the fuel reaches >3000°C, all metals will melt, concrete will dry out and break, all fuel will leave the containment.
by Edano 9/27/2011 5:47:27 PM

plus, don't forget the spent fuel pools.
by Edano 9/27/2011 5:51:18 PM

@Edano But did we get enough water in the right places long enough an soon enough to matter greatly. Spent fuel pools without water would have been an epic disaster beyond comprehension. Burning fuel open to the winds.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 5:52:09 PM

@lillymunster yes, i am sure the seawater injection was the only possibility and prevented a far worse scenario.
by Edano 9/27/2011 5:53:25 PM

iodine and cesium are highly volatile even without steam. in chernobyl we had an enourmous rad cloud without steam. it just needs high temperatures to blow it out into the atmosphere.
by Edano 9/27/2011 5:56:09 PM

@Edano At Chernobyl the water attempts were largely useless. The method of system watering that was left wasn't putting water anywhere near the fuel. Dumping sand and concrete was used due to no other options.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 6:41:49 PM

www.nirs.org dug up this presentation on dry fuel casks at fukushima before the melt down
by artnuke 9/27/2011 6:42:54 PM

back for a bit
by dean 9/27/2011 7:18:28 PM

@dean Hi Dean, I was just leaving for a bit. :-) Lol
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 7:19:43 PM

well.. I came for lunch @ lilly... be safe but get back.... lol
by dean 9/27/2011 7:21:39 PM

@ lilly some time back there was the mention about NRC telling utilities but those utilities have lots of tricks up their sleeves from a timely response of fix
by dean 9/27/2011 7:22:34 PM

@dean did you see the steam/radioactive release from palladines?
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:27:17 PM

www.yomiuri.co.jp Simulation says seawater injection could have saved unit 2 from meltdown
by artnuke 9/27/2011 7:38:20 PM

@ lilly.. sorry I had to step away...
by dean 9/27/2011 7:44:38 PM

I haven't see that @ elaine
by dean 9/27/2011 7:44:45 PM

@dean I will get it
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:46:29 PM

ty
by dean 9/27/2011 7:47:04 PM

@dean Electrical problems trigger radioactive steam release at Palisades | The American Independent www.americanindependent.com
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:49:00 PM

@ elaine.. those workers are susposed to use LANYARDS on tooling when working around electrical power.. SHEEEEEEEEEEESH..
by dean 9/27/2011 7:51:33 PM

@dean why havent they?
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:52:45 PM

I need to step away but will return @ elaine... ty for the article... it would be good to research for a normal PWR plant OR BWR plant how much steam is vented as they are transitioning to a hot then cold shutdown.. they all blow steam some
by dean 9/27/2011 7:52:54 PM

that question I asked sounds daft Is there a reason they wouldnt be wearing them?
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:53:14 PM

earlier report www.hollandsentinel.com
by dean 9/27/2011 7:54:29 PM

it's hard to imagine but without knowing the details something went amiss and after the earlier shutdown for other issues in that link on holland... there were other problems.. then they shut down and then started back up and had that event with the electrical.... those events during that sort of startup are very complex from a physics standpoint
by dean 9/27/2011 7:56:08 PM

willl return
by dean 9/27/2011 7:57:38 PM

@dean ty dean
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 7:59:09 PM

Back for a bit. Looks like Dean already left again...
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 8:00:58 PM

@elainekirk Maybe TEPCO needs to require lanyards on shoes. :-)
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 8:03:05 PM

@lillymunster roflmao have you read org sellafield features
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 8:13:27 PM

@elainekirk outdoor fuel storage pond full of sludge? Seriously? :-0
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 8:22:05 PM

@lillymunster seriously
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 8:31:25 PM

@elainekirk wow. Any idea why they waited so long to empty it? Were they letting things decay more or just didn't get around to it?
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 8:46:36 PM

@lillymunster too many fingers in the sellafield pie for anything constructive to be done methinks
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 8:52:50 PM

@elainekirk It seems like every developed country has one of these left over disaster areas from the 1940-50's nuclear programs. What a mess.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 8:55:26 PM

@lillymunster sellafield dumped in the irish sea for years BBC News - Low Sellafield radiation levels in Manx seafood www.bbc.co.uk
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 8:58:31 PM

@elainekirk does anyone actually have the levels found in seafood there now? Would be interesting to see the bq/kg now vs. fukushima levels
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 9:09:12 PM