Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2415

is #2 the source of the steam www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 9:40:35 PM

I posted my notes from the corium/containment paper to projects area of the group website. Short link to it: wp.me
Let me know if there is something more useful I should do with it.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 9:44:24 PM

@lillymunster they are moving another piece in on teppy cam I will look at your paper but I am out of my depth on techi :)
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 9:56:26 PM

@elainekirk I appears to be the piece with the shredded skirt they were flying around like a kite before the last storm.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 9:57:25 PM

bullying of fukushima children radiation-ism, paints a pretty bleak picture. www.bloomberg.com
by artnuke 9/27/2011 9:59:20 PM

@lillymunster they all have that skirt it must adhere to the board below to form a seal or something
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 10:03:09 PM

@elainekirk I think it tucks inside to form overlaps.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 10:05:55 PM

@artnuke it happened after the bombs too. The people know they are being fed what the authorities want them to know , they know they are given erronous readings like these 140 from tepco www.tepco.co.jp they know radiation is harmful. At the end of the day families will act- in what they believe given their knowledge of a situation to be the best interests of their own family.
It may not be right that they reject fuku evacuees but to me it is understandable and done out of fear not malice
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 10:09:06 PM

did the russians have an epidemic of suicides and shunning of radiation victims or is that just a Japanese thing? Chinese are really leery of radiation too. One complaint I have about Asians in my Asianweek columns is that culturally sometimes they just think too hard, that no shoes house in the rule to the nth degree. Warfare too, Japanese in WWII would come up with these enormously complex plans and schemes which would sometimes be foiled by Americans too dumb to do anything but react instinctively. Battle off Samar is my favorite example, giant battleship stumbles across a tiny fleet of naval equivalent of mini-cars which doesn't any weapons capable of any real damage to the batteship and ... loses.
by artnuke 9/27/2011 10:32:37 PM

@artnuke I believe it happened with Chernobyl but what we have to remember is that whilst rather late in the day there was data gathering and population tracking with chernobyl the human emotional aspect was not well documented , the internet being widely used by humans has led to the grass roots problems being aired more widely a few years ago and fuku would have been the domain of the experts ttoo
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 10:37:45 PM

@artnuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki had major cultural and social significance. They were the first group of people subjected to nuclear exposure (on top of it being the first nuclear bomb). The concept at the time scared people around the world and the public didn't know of it before the bombing. So take 1940's culture and such a new scary thing. I think this fostered some of the fear. Plus the horrible aftermath at both bombings really was surreal. Greg Mitchell has some great information on the evidence and films that the US thought they destroyed of the worst of it. One of the Japanese journalists hid a copy of the film in his attic for years. I don't know the extent that there was bias and fear after Chernobyl but Japan has shades of the same fear and bias that happened after the war.

One of the worst was customer harassing sex workers in Japan. Some were hiding the fact that they were from Fukushima, it was bad for business and customers would say some really hurtful things. It was kind of the worst case scenario of being treated like crap out of fear and ignorance. I think Japan Subculture ran the original story back in maybe June?
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 10:37:57 PM

Isn't the presence of obvious steam plumes proof that radioactivity is leaking like crazy, pressure or no pressure? Isn't a properly operating nuclear plant NEVER supposed to produce a steam plume like a thermal plant does through its stacks. And in no case should it ever come from the edges of the containment well plug, worse case would be from stacks right? Weren't authorities saying there was no big leak while steam was spilling out like crazy from reactor well and fuel pools?
by artnuke 9/27/2011 10:38:01 PM

@artnuke the only steam venting out of a nuke plant that would be benign would be a steam release out of the turbine systems. There is some sort of venting on that side of the plant if they have to do a sudden stop. I don't know exactly how that works (the venting itself) but they did one at North Anna that was not radioactive steam.

by lillymunster 9/27/2011 10:39:49 PM

back.. @ lilly.. what's your assessment of the PALISADES VENT
by dean 9/27/2011 10:45:13 PM

@dean hadn't looked at it yet.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 10:49:22 PM

@ lilly.. very commendable work on that corium/containment paper...
by dean 9/27/2011 10:54:35 PM

@dean thanks, figured it makes a good cheat sheet, let me know if you think up other uses for it.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 10:55:08 PM

* * * UPDATE AT 0037 EDT ON 9/27/11 FROM PORTER TO HUFFMAN VIA E-MAIL * * *

The following is a summary of information received from GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy via e-mail of a letter, Reference MFN 10-245 R4, addressed to the NRC and dated September 26, 2011:

"GE Hitachi (GEH) has determined that the scram capability of the control rod drive mechanism in BWR/2-5 plants may not be sufficient to ensure the control rod will fully insert in a cell with channel-control rod friction at or below the friction limits specified in MFN 08-420 with a concurrent Safe Shutdown Earthquake (SSE). The plant condition for which incomplete control rod insertion might occur is when the reactor is below normal operating pressure (<900 psig) and a scram occurs concurrent with the SSE, for Mark I containment plants, and for the SSE with concurrent Loss-of-Coolant Accident (LOCA) and Safety Relief Valve (SRV) events for Mark II containment plants. In this scenario a Substantial Safety Hazard results because the affected control rods might not fully insert to perform the required safety function
www.nrc.gov
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 10:55:14 PM

@lillymunster hey that corium is good I delayed going because it is techi but you explain it well
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 10:57:32 PM

@dean Palisides? It's just a bit a tritium, probably not enough to ruin anybody's day.....
by artnuke 9/27/2011 11:07:16 PM

Oh the one with the dropped tool. Sounds about as bad as Fukushima when the worker bumped a panel with his elbow and tripped everything into shutdown. Do they have any amount on the radiation release?
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 11:10:19 PM

Expert says more food testing is needed ajw.asahi.com
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 11:22:46 PM

@ lilly.. this is what I'm attending tomorrow...
DR. Akira Tokuhiro University of Idaho
Lessons Learned 6+ Months after the Earthquake, Tsunami and Fukushima
Nuclear Plant Accident
Akira Tokuhiro is Professor of Mechanical and Nuclear Engineering at the University of Idaho. Dr. Tokuhiro has a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering(Purdue), MS in Mechanical Engineering (U. Rochester), B.S.E. in Engineering-Physics (Purdue) and 10 years of international experience in advanced reactor R&D (Paul Scherrer Institute and Japan Atomic Energy Agency).
by dean 9/27/2011 11:23:58 PM

@ artnuke and lilly... tritium suggests more than secondary steam which would be clean... and with it's recent history and shutdown of valve failure then quick restart it makes me really wonder about allowing maintenance on an electrical component with risk of a shutdown so close to just being shutdown
by dean 9/27/2011 11:27:59 PM

@dean Sounds like maybe Palisades got in too much of a hurry, time is money... :-(

That lecture sounds really interesting. So your going to come tell us all the cool things you find out? :-)
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 11:37:03 PM

@ lilly,,, the reactor had to force shutdown due to a valve problem and then probably fixed the leak then they had to wait for the window of time which would allow the restart and not be over come by the poison XENON which would not have allowed the reactor to go critical (CALLED XENON WAIT). STARTING up that early after the problem was then impacted by the loss of power.. WOW
by dean 9/27/2011 11:42:24 PM

@audi-tek found the control rod emails have been picked up by another site, nucpros.com I find them very strange
by elainekirk 9/27/2011 11:42:29 PM

I will take notes @ lilly.. what's your questions and I will ask.. or others
by dean 9/27/2011 11:42:39 PM

@dean what is your take on this control rod issue? Sounds downright scary.
by lillymunster 9/27/2011 11:55:23 PM

finally, a panel on teppycam. i nearly thought they gave it up :)
by Edano 9/27/2011 11:58:55 PM

@Edano are they still swinging it
by elainekirk 9/28/2011 12:00:06 AM

Panel: TEPCO unprepared for Fukushima accident

A government panel says Tokyo Electric Power Company was unprepared for the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant and failed to take steps to minimize the damage.

The panel investigating the accident held its third meeting on Tuesday. It met behind closed doors, saying that allowing media access would negatively affect its interviews with the plant's staff.

Panel leader Yotaro Hatamura told reporters after the meeting that they are looking into whether Tokyo Electric was ready to protect the plant from tsunami and other severe accidents.

Hatamura said the company could have taken more effective steps after the March 11th tsunami if it had come up with ways to minimize the damage.

He added that the panel will further investigate why the utility was unable to contain the damage from the accident.

The panel is scheduled to release an interim report on its probe at the end of the year.

Wednesday, September 28, 2011 00:56 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:03:43 AM

and now the best news of the day........................
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:05:18 AM

@Edano I laughed when I read that headline
by lillymunster 9/28/2011 12:05:46 AM

Anti-nuclear experts join energy panel

Japan's industry ministry has decided to add experts who favor reducing the nation's reliance on nuclear power to a panel tasked with crafting a new energy policy.

Industry minister Yukio Edano revealed the decision on Tuesday.

The new panel is to hold its first meeting on October 3rd. It will review Japan's mid- to long-term energy policy, which had been focused on increasing nuclear power until the March 11th disaster.

Compared to previous panels, the new panel includes more experts who have been critical of the government's energy policies, such as NPO leaders Tetsunari Iida and Hideyuki Ban.

There will be no representatives from the energy industry, such as power companies.

The panel is to meet once or twice a month and detail a new energy program by around next summer.

Industry minister Edano said that the panel members were chosen so that a balanced debate could be held. He added the meetings will be posted on the Internet and he hopes they will be as open as possible.

Tuesday, September 27, 2011 13:37 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:06:10 AM

@lilly.. will be back and comment on control rod
by dean 9/28/2011 12:08:48 AM

Fukushima City to decontaminate all houses

Fukushima City, about 60 kilometers from the crippled Dai-ichi nuclear power plant, plans to remove radioactive materials from all private houses in the city.

The plan was decided after high levels of radiation were detected in some areas of the city. The amounts were close to a level that would prompt authorities to recommend evacuation of nearby residents.

.....

www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:10:00 AM

@lillymunster have you heared of that before ? evacuation levels in fuku city ?
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:10:38 AM

english.kyodonews.jp

Bhutan PM Thinley visits Fukushima
Bhutan's Prime Minister Jigmi Thinley (L) receives pears as a gift from Fukushima Gov. Yuhei Sato at the Fukushima prefectural office on the afternoon of Sept. 27, 2011. (Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 9/28/2011 12:15:22 AM

@ lilly.. the control rod issue is significant to provide the margins of safety at lower pressure condition accidents..
by dean 9/28/2011 12:16:15 AM

@Edano Yikes!. I remember someone saying levels were really high there right after the accident. The mayor was against evacuation
by lillymunster 9/28/2011 12:18:02 AM

@lillymunster what do you mean ? the decontamination article or the peaches ?
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:19:44 AM

@Edano decon
by lillymunster 9/28/2011 12:20:52 AM

somehow i feel desinformed, i never read about high contamination near to evacuation levels (and probably beyond) in fuku city.
by Edano 9/28/2011 12:24:56 AM