Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2621

@MaryW maybe not because at least one blew the whistle in 2000 ans since then tepco continued to break the rules so the government overseers would have the blame passed from manufacturer to them and then the government can argue that power companies cooperate on a voluntary basis in /japan and therefore the ultimate responsibility is at tepco's door, thats only my take on it though
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 8:57:39 PM

@MaryW It may wait until they actually take the plants apart. The plants failed when Daini didn't. Who agreed to the cut down plant elevation may come into play. Since GE took the lead on the first unit at some point they signed off on both the lowered plant elevation and putting generators in the basements. TEPCO was learning from GE at Fukushima so there is some potential for a liability spat. I could see TEPCO doing a "hail mary pass" and suing GE. I think GE admitted some liability when they started doing PR here how the BWR design was safe and started throwing hits it was all TEPCO's fault.
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 8:59:38 PM

Japan insider: Breakup is only a matter of time as TEPCO runs out of cash -- 'We're basically waiting for the natural death of TEPCO.' enenews.com matter-of-time-as-tepco-runs-out-of-cash-were-basically-waiting-for-the-natural-death-of-tepco
by MaryW 11/7/2011 9:04:56 PM

A bit odd how that link printed out
by MaryW 11/7/2011 9:11:08 PM

Jury finds Conrad Murray GUILTY OF INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER of Michael Jackson.
by MaryW 11/7/2011 9:21:02 PM

I found more about decommissioning in the US. NRC requires a decommissioning trust fund be set up but it is funded by the public as consumers through additional fees they have to pay on their power bills. In the case of Vermont Yankee when the plant was sold to Entergy the trust fund went with the plant as an asset. Entergy wants to take any surplus amounts left over after decomissioning and just keep them. So the longer they run the plant the more money goes into the pot. Then they just have to decomission on the cheap and pocket the difference. Someone intervened and now Entergy can only raid the portion of the fund paid by customers in other states that VY provides power to. www.citizen.org
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 9:22:02 PM

Those trust funds then invest in the stock markets - they are not lock boxed away somewhere with state or federal oversight. All that money could be lost in a big scandal or wallstreet collapse. www.wikinvest.com(EXC)/Investments_Nuclear_Decommissioning_Trust_Funds
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 9:24:41 PM

@MaryW Sorry to ask about this off topic, but could you provide a link to the source of the Conrad Murray verdict? I couldn't find any confirmation of the verdict, only that the jury had indeed reached one and that it would be read at 1pm PST.
by Pedro Jesus 11/7/2011 9:34:23 PM

@Pedro Jesus www.usatoday.com news.google.com
by Edano 11/7/2011 9:35:54 PM

@Pedro Jesus Sorry I was away, here it is www.msnbc.msn.com
by MaryW 11/7/2011 9:40:39 PM

@Pedro Jesus No bail and sentencing on November 29th. (I know this is off subject, so feel free to delete post)
by MaryW 11/7/2011 9:45:02 PM

They really threw the book at him, no bail?
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 9:47:41 PM

@lillymunster for 150,000 $ monthly, he should have been better. :)
by Edano 11/7/2011 9:50:10 PM

@Edano what he was doing was just crazy stupid.
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 9:53:10 PM

@lillymunster in so many ways...
by Edano 11/7/2011 9:54:08 PM

Key lesson from Iceland crisis is 'let banks fail' - Yahoo! News news.yahoo.com via @YahooNews
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 9:58:15 PM

Thanks Mary and Edano. @Moderator: Feel free to delete my posts regarding this off-topic event.
by Pedro Jesus 11/7/2011 10:40:37 PM

@Pedro Jesus But it also is a world event :)
by MaryW 11/7/2011 10:42:36 PM

can anybody tell me why ND appears to cover different levels in different places ?
e.g. www.tepco.co.jp

* "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit.
Detection limits of 3 nuclides on the West Gate of Fukushima Daiichi are as follows:
Volatile: I-131: approx. 1E-7Bq/cm3, Cs-134: approx. 3E-7Bq/cm3, Cs-137: approx. 3E-7Bq/cm3 Particulate: I-131: approx. 6E-8Bq/cm3, Cs-134:
approx. 2E-7Bq/cm3, Cs-137: approx. 2E-7Bq/cm3
Detection limits of 3 nuclides on MP-1 of Fukushima Daini are as follows:
Volatile: I-131: approx. 2E-6Bq/cm3, Cs-134: approx. 3E-6Bq/cm3, Cs-137: approx. 3E-6Bq/cm3 Particulate: I-131: approx. 8E-7Bq/cm3, Cs-
134: approx. 2E-6Bq/cm3, Cs-137: approx. 2E-6Bq/cm
by elainekirk edited by lillymunster 11/7/2011 11:16:12 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 11:23:48 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
Nuclide Analysis Results of Radioactive Materials in the Air
at the Upper Part of the Reactor Building of Unit 3, Fukushima Daiichi
.
www.tepco.co.jp
Nuclide Analysis Results of Radioactive Materials in the Air
at the Upper Part of the Reactor Building of Unit 1 Fukushima Daiichi
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 11:25:16 PM

I compiled the info tippytoe etc found a few weeks ago on US nuclear power companies hiding behind LLC companies into an article. I put it in peer review in case anyone wants to read it before I publish it. Let me know if you find anything that needs fixing. One new thing I found is that in the US the NRC makes ratepayers pay into a fund via their power bill that is a decommissioning trust fund. But even that gets put at risk somewhat.

wp.me
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 11:28:39 PM

@elainekirk so "non detected" at daiichi is different than daini? What a load of horse leavings!!
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 11:30:02 PM

@lillymunster I am gobsmacked if you go look at daiichi 1 & 3 below they change again!
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 11:32:28 PM

ND nonsense. Each of these numbers is listed as a threshold for "non detected" for iodine 131 by TEPCO

unit 1 daiichi upper reactor: Volatile: I-131: approx. 6E-6Bq/cm3
unit 3 daiichi upper reactor: Volatile: I-131: approx. 1E-5Bq/cm3
west gate daiichi Volatile: I-131: approx. 1E-7Bq/cm3
at daini Volatile: I-131: approx. 2E-6Bq/cm3

TEPCO's statement of what ND means:
* "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit.

Does this make sense to anyone?
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 11:41:52 PM

back
by dean 11/7/2011 11:52:01 PM

@lilly.. it may mean NO DATA.. with TEPCO..
by dean 11/7/2011 11:53:25 PM

@dean this is tepco's disclaimer * "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit.
by lillymunster 11/7/2011 11:54:44 PM

your article from tippytoe info looks good @lilly houseoffoust.com
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 11:57:46 PM

@lilly. did anything come of the links I put up talking about a possible explosion in the side of #2
by dean 11/7/2011 11:58:30 PM

ND again !!

* "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit. I-131: approx. 16Bq/L 　　 Please note that these nuclides are sometimes detected even when they are below the limits, contingent on the
detector or samples www.tepco.co.jp
ND again !! fro m the same doc www.tepco.co.jp

* "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit. I-131: approx. 20Bq/L
by elainekirk 11/7/2011 11:59:43 PM

@lillymunster, as to the design of Mark I containments, CNIC cnic.jp provides the following insights: "Assume that the thickest pipe of the recirculation system pipe (i.e., the recirculation outlet pipe) is completely damaged (this scenario is called a "guillotine break"). If this happens, all the coolant inside the pressure vessel will gush out through the broken sections in a very short time, and high temperature steam will be released into the drywell of the containment vessel. The steam will ultimately travel toward the suppression chamber, where it will be channeled into the water inside the chamber and condense to water. As it does so, the volume is reduced and thus the pressure within the containment vessel will decrease. In theory, therefore, the pressure within the Mark I type containment vessel (the type used in Units 1 to 5 of Fukushima Daiichi) should never exceed 4 atmospheres.

In reality, however, the pressure in the containment vessels of Units 1 through 3 did exceed 4 atmospheres. In particular, the pressure of Unit 1 reached as high as approximately 7.4 atmospheres only nine hours after the earthquake. This fact indicates that the suppression chamber did not function in the way it was designed. While our analysis is still in progress, the pressure was extremely high and the change occurred in a short period of time. We suspect that the system intended to channel the vast amount of steam in the drywell into the water of the suppression chamber was damaged by the earthquake."
One day we shall know, whether it was earthquake damage or a design failure.
by Peter 11/8/2011 12:02:05 AM

I can only assume that they have detected 131 at the levels stated but class all the readings as ND which means there is still 131 being released
yup those are the measurements look where they have 131 and 134 ND they have given the levels for each
* "ND" means the sampled data is below measurable limit.
I-131: approx. 16Bq/L, Cs-134: approx. 25Bq/
previous day data 6th www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 11/8/2011 12:03:16 AM

@Peter I like cnic their report looks good
by elainekirk 11/8/2011 12:09:02 AM

@dean the vid of the steam/fog seemed to come from unit 4 - commonpool. the other vid of the cranes kept crashing
by lillymunster 11/8/2011 12:09:27 AM

@dean I saw the explosion theory the other day but it was a crank site I havent seen your links
by elainekirk 11/8/2011 12:09:54 AM

@Peter good write....most LOCA's assume small breaks starting at 3-6 inches and then analyse and continue up to the worst case what I call double ended offset shear of the largest pipe which is typically the worst case. nuclear analysts call fukushima the "typical boil off"... which overwhelmed the torus etc and lowered the water level .
by dean 11/8/2011 12:10:41 AM

ty @elaine.. I have posts earlier but perhaps they are crank ones.. SIGH..
by dean 11/8/2011 12:11:24 AM

@ all.. I must go rest as tomorrow morning is my knee surgeries... I will return once in rehap and look forward to coming back
by dean 11/8/2011 12:13:34 AM