Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2675

@hudebnik right that is what I am seeing. That is what makes me wonder if we have two problems
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 3:25:04 PM

@hudebnik If we had a decent online rad network for all of Europe we could figure this out MUCH easier. * including Russia, non EU countries further east etc.
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 3:25:39 PM

'lilly - hear, hear!
by hudebnik 11/17/2011 3:26:11 PM

Right, taking a tea break. May see you later.
by hudebnik 11/17/2011 3:26:37 PM

The October wind map could support Budapest being a source. It also pulls in air from further east making Ukraine possible too. www.windfinder.com
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 3:29:26 PM

back and forth to therapy.. will return
by dean 11/17/2011 3:32:38 PM

@all - would it be correct to update the EU issue as "maybe" on both the Hungary source and the Ukraine source and outline what we have on each so far? Anything else that should get added to the update?
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 3:46:06 PM

RT @Toshogu: Cesium fallout widespread | The Japan Times Online t.co
by elainekirk 11/17/2011 3:58:19 PM

@lillymunster , here is the tall stack we discussed last night you'd need for such wide spread emissions. The picture is from Izotop's website you posted. I believe Izotop is the most likely source. i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter via I1214.photobucket 11/17/2011 4:09:33 PM

@Peter That would be sufficient. I am really starting to think we have two unrelated issues. One maybe being Izotop as the Iodine source and a small burp at Chernobyl causing some elevated readings in that region and on the Russian border sites. If you take each situation divided away from the other they do make two separate sources and paths. We also do not have any specific isotope data for Russia or Ukraine so we don't know if the spikes over in that eastern area are from something else like cesium or a mix of isotopes from Chernobyl.
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 4:22:01 PM

That building doesn't match the one in the document file posted. I wonder if that is an office building on campus or if this is the university facility instead? The one in the document is mentioned as the reactor building
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 4:23:42 PM

@lillymunster , it seems very tall. The photographer needed distance. Who knows how large the premises are and where the building on the right belongs. The reactor they need to produce the isotopes could be part of a campus.
by Peter 11/17/2011 4:28:25 PM

... maybe mapquest Budapest or google earth would show, :)
by Peter 11/17/2011 4:29:35 PM

@Peter if the street address computes in google maps we might be able to get a street view
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 4:30:15 PM

@elainekirk Every day they seem to expand what is contaminated
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 4:38:15 PM

I already found the place with google maps. It is part of a large reservation in a forest about 5 miles from city center.
by Peter 11/17/2011 4:41:49 PM

The street address is 1121 budapest, konkoly thege miklós út 29-33 then look a couple of hundred yards northwest from the marker and there's a big vent stack.
by hudebnik 11/17/2011 4:42:48 PM

...between the villages of Mariamakk and Normarfa.
by Peter 11/17/2011 4:43:05 PM

back for a bit
by dean 11/17/2011 4:45:18 PM

@peter - yup, that's the place
by hudebnik 11/17/2011 4:46:10 PM

@hudebnik , boy, it sure casts a long shadow. I'll take a screenshot and post it.
by Peter 11/17/2011 4:48:03 PM

If someone can post a screenshot of it I can add it to the update article.
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 4:50:44 PM

Argh sorry that so didn't work!
by hudebnik 11/17/2011 4:54:44 PM

I finally got it done, internet here is so slow. i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter via I1214.photobucket 11/17/2011 4:57:15 PM

www.kfki.hu
by dean 11/17/2011 4:58:31 PM

@ all.. that link gives details about the facility
by dean 11/17/2011 4:59:47 PM

Added an update post to the website. Put the Budapest facility information, what we had on Chernobyl and the theory of them being split incidents. If anyone finds any radiation stations in western Ukraine that could help us track both issues.
What additional radiation data might be useful on the Budapest source?
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 5:12:06 PM

@All in german news: source of iodine found, according to IAEA it is a medicine company in Hungary, I guess the one you are referring to, here is the link m.spiegel.de
by andrea 11/17/2011 5:18:41 PM

@dean and/or other nuke "tekkies" on here....I know this is a bit off topic, but I have a question I can't answer from those I argue with on Facebook, etc. RE: nuke issues. So metal exposed to radiation can become radioactive like the radioactive debris at Fukushima, and even some of the cars that have been shipped from japan. I also know that radiation increases in an airplane because there is less protection from cosmic radiation. My question is why aren't planes that fly almost everyday gradually becoming more radioactive. (Or the space shuttle which repeatedly gets used, for that matter....I would think that it should be practically glowing!) ???
by wrshpr 11/17/2011 5:19:31 PM

@wrshpr no, they don't get radioactive. what gets radioactive in a car, are the air filters.
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:21:37 PM

so is the metal at the Fukushima plant not radioactive? Is it just other debris like dust or what not?
by wrshpr 11/17/2011 5:22:16 PM

Fukushima to ban rice grown in Onami
High reading of cesium in sample keeps crop off market www.japantimes.co.jp
by Panserbjorne9 11/17/2011 5:22:50 PM

@lillymunster, did you see this pic. in the doc Dean posted? The stack puts out 60,000 cubicmeters/h. i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter via I1214.photobucket 11/17/2011 5:23:14 PM

@wrshpr the metal around the fuel and the vessel itself will be radioactive, but it takes a lot of time and high doses.
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:23:33 PM

most problematic is the dust.
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:24:04 PM

@ wrshpr, in addition to what Edano said... many times the terms used in the nuclear industry are taken wrongly and applied to conditions after an accident
by dean 11/17/2011 5:24:19 PM

@you another error is to say that you get radioactive doses in planes. of course, there is more radiation, but you do not inhale or ingest it. it is "only" radiation. the dust in fukushima is much more dangerous, because it enters the blood system and the organs.
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:25:47 PM

the internal components of a reactor become "irradiated" which then makes then radioactive because they are giving off decay energy. Contamination like airbourne on inhaled or plated out on the surface of a car et.. makes it. CONTAMINATED ALSO.
by dean 11/17/2011 5:26:27 PM

@wrshpr , the process is called neutron activation. Some, but by far not all, metals like silver can capture neutrons and transform into radionuclides.
by Peter 11/17/2011 5:27:05 PM

the nuke industry always likes to compare rad pollution to a flight in a plane, but it is like comparing apples and pears.
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:27:41 PM

@dean hi dean, how are you ?
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:29:23 PM

@all did we find the source, in hungary ? i see a long stack. :)
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:29:41 PM

@andrea Thanks for finding this. I love how the IAEA says "probably".
by lillymunster 11/17/2011 5:30:45 PM

they blew out a hell lot of bq.... the poor people of budapest !
by Edano 11/17/2011 5:39:07 PM

So to recap, planes and shuttles are probably at least externally composed of metals which do not transform radioactive neutrons into nucleotides. And the cosmic radiation bounces off you or the plane as opposed to rad pollution from an industrial nuclear accident (which brings me to another question -- how 'bout the backscatter machines at the airport -- does that bounce off of you, or into you and the surrounding environs?), and additionally, the cosmic radiation isn't high enough in either contant exposure of time or actual intensity of the radiation levels? Is that a pretty accurate summary? (And thanks, all!)
by wrshpr 11/17/2011 5:41:42 PM