Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2682

I need to go sleep, nite all!
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 4:27:08 AM

Anonymous researcher at KFKI vents some spleen about not being informed about ongoing iodine 131 isotope releases from the stack only 100m away from his workplace. The only negative coverage I could find in the Hungarian press. This translation isn't too bad, but a few words were not translated (can't figure out why): Jódizotóp - iodine isoptope, izotópgyár - isotope plant, oszthattak jódtablettát - (for safety's sake) they should have distributed iodine tablets, megnyugtatásunkra közölhetnének - for our peace of mind they could have provided us (residents, workers) with information, kéménytől - from the stack Here's the link: www.hir24.hu Shades of Fukushima, ne?
by Andrea C. 11/19/2011 5:14:30 AM

Here is the translated link: translate.google.com
by Andrea C. 11/19/2011 5:26:07 AM

@Lillymunster Hi. I take a guess :If you check out power plants around the world, you would find many with spikes like this from time to time. When I think of all information I have read about power plants after Fuku, I had no idea that the standard and security at plants are so low. Arnie Gundersen has dealed with these issues for decades.
I continue guessing: I think the lab director at the plant in Hungary is right when he says that this can not be the source of the increase if iodine in Europe – because this happens often, and “only” pollute the area around. The special about the situation in Europe now, is that the iodine increase is in MANY countries, that is, this comes from ONE source, and a bigger source.
My guess is to look at the known big nuclear accidents: Chernobyl and Fukushima. Chernobyl is still leaking and is a potential treat, Fuku has on-off chain reactions going on, and will therefore give spikes in radiation. So why do “they” totally rule out Fuku as a possible source?
by Mona 11/19/2011 11:40:49 AM

@Lillymunster Very interessting by the way, the spikes - ty for digging. :)
by Mona 11/19/2011 11:42:22 AM

www.jma.go.jp
19:07 JST 19 Nov 2011 37.0N 140.6E 20 km 4.2 Fukushima-ken Hamadori
by Edano via Jma.go.jp 11/19/2011 11:52:16 AM

90 min ago
by Edano 11/19/2011 11:52:45 AM

www.houseoffoust.com
something is wrong with #1 water level, or they are cheating ....
by Edano via Houseoffoust 11/19/2011 11:57:34 AM

hi back for a couple of hrs
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 12:22:24 PM

@elainekirk you wrecked the camper ?
by Edano 11/19/2011 12:30:05 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
Current Status of Tsunami Sediments Study Around the Coast of Kashiwazaki Kariwa Nuclear Power Station The First Day of Investigation (November 15, 2011) Investigation in Miyagawa, Kashiwazaki(PDF 69.4KB) www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 11/19/2011 12:31:01 PM

@Edano no but the site we were on was very posh
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 12:31:30 PM

@Edano it is very difficult to ask for help from organised people they didnt mingle and the site said we could buy a gas bottle from them when we got there then when we got there they said 'we only do swaps' so only had fruit and a marmite butty
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 12:33:25 PM

@Mona The reason we should rule out Fukushima is because we know which isotopes are coming from Fukushima and some of them have far longer half-life than iodine-131, which means a lot more isotopes would be detected in a very high proportion in Europe apart from iodine. Another hint is the natural route from Japan. The wind route from Japan to Europe goes across the USA. It takes so long for airborne particles to fly from Japan to Europe that for iodine-131 to be detected in Europe (coming from Japan), with it's half-life of only 8 days (meaning every 8 days radiation from a certain source is reduced roughly by half on average) it would require a tremendous source to start with, and we haven't seen any such concentrations of iodine anywhere around the world, yet. These are two very strong reasons to dismiss Fukushima as the source of iodine-131 in Europe.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 12:43:15 PM

@Pedro Jesus the readings are they automatic or could they be manipulated?
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 12:55:05 PM

At 10:47 pm on November 18, desalination plant (RO) unit 2-2 suspended
due to automatic suspend of a high pressure pump and a booster pump. The
research is currently underway. There is no impact for water injection
to the reactor because of enough fresh water stock.
- Around 11:00 pm on November 18, it was confirmed that coolant water
temperature at the heat exchange facility exit of unit 3 alternative
cooling facility for the fuel spent pool tends to increase (16.5°C at 8
pm → 17.3 °C at 11 pm). At 7:00 am on November 19, it was confirmed main
tap for watering was closed. The temperature decreased after tap opening
(19.5 °C at 5 am → 17.9 °C at 8 am). The research for tap close is
currently underway. www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 1:02:30 PM

@elainekirk Which ones? In Portugal it's all automated up to the point where they are posted on the website so it would require bringing the system off-line in order to manipulate information, which would set off alarms in the central. Or someone could try to manipulate data after it's published but since a lot of website re-publish this data, someone would figure it out easily. I don't know how other countries' systems work.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:05:45 PM

@Pedro Jesus thank you I just wondered good to know it is secure as hopefully others work like you
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 1:06:58 PM

@elainekirk I should add that the nuclear industry has no foot in Portugal, so that helps keep these things real. Only about 2% of our electricity comes from Spanish nuclear power plants. The bulk of the electricity we spend here in the south of Portugal comes from renewables.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:10:04 PM

@elainekirk This is the current official electricity sources share on our southern grid:
Wind power - 57.7%
Microproduction (home production by solar panels and others) - 20.3%
Other unspecified sources - 8.6%
Natural Gas - 4.8%
Coal - 3.6%
Dams - 2.2%
Nuclear - 1.5%
Fuel - 0.3%
Other water sources [I think wave power] - 1.0%

Pretty clean, hey!
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:22:41 PM

@Pedro Jesus that sounds the stuff of dreams. Scotland wants rid of nukes but I do wonder why people complain so much about windfarms every planning application that goes in gets resisted , It galls me when people sit at their electrically dependent comps ranting about it just as they would rant about any other power source
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 1:25:57 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
the road between unit 2 & 3
by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 11/19/2011 1:28:53 PM

www.tepco.co.jp
translation from Japanese says it is a pic of the clean up around the 'old museum' lol very freudian
by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 11/19/2011 1:31:09 PM

@elainekirk It doesn't help our economy so much but yes, it is a dream come true, and coming from a small, poor country. Very good example to the world. If our past Governments did anything right, this was it. There are many other ongoing projects in the renewable area that could take us to a 100% clean future which is not so far away. Of course the advent of the European Union destroyed our industry which explains a lot. Less industrial energy demand makes it easier.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:37:33 PM

@elainekirk Back in the nineties there was a lot of resistance from eco-friendly organizations to wind power. The environmental impact was unknown, the technology was not so good so there was a low efficiency and a lot of particles release (from mechanical wear and tear). Only when new technologies came up, such has fibber glass propellers and more efficient lubricants, did our environmental organizations started supporting wind power. Also, environmental impact studies were conducted to ascertain the impact on birds. They came to the conclusion that on the mid, long term the impact is null. Birds adapt easily. Accidents with birds and bats are very rare nowadays. A close friend of mine who is responsible for wind power plants maintenance in the south regions of Portugal has hardly any work now. The engineering behind these newer designs is very robust, efficient and long lasting.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:44:38 PM

I meant turbines, not propellers, but you get the drift.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 1:46:16 PM

@Pedro Jesus yup not a fan of Europe either , chasing the economic dream is at the expense of human wellbeing...and animal/vegetable/mineral
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 1:59:57 PM

News round:

"Nobel-winning climate science panel to world leaders: Get ready for a wilder weather future" www.washingtonpost.com

"Army test in Hawaii launches weapon capable of traveling 5 times the speed of sound" www.washingtonpost.com

"New test finds neutrinos still faster than light" [New experiment to be conducted in Japan] www.independent.co.uk
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 2:36:13 PM

@Pedro Jesus I think Japan should lower their sights and get their present house in order
by elainekirk 11/19/2011 2:44:06 PM

by Ian 11/19/2011 2:49:40 PM

by Ian 11/19/2011 2:50:32 PM

@Pedro, if your still around. If you know of any sources of info on the wind turbine vs. bird issue please let me know. We still run into that myth out here sometimes.
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:02:07 PM

@elainekirk I partly agree on the one hand, but on the other, life must go on and they can't stop everything else and let their economy crumble. Science and technology research is one of their biggest strengths. We all owe a lot to them. A great deal of the techy equipment I use is of Japan design, including one of my guitars. On a different angle, this experiment is of the utmost importance for humanity. It could change the whole science paradigm and open doors and windows to new research areas as well as current top notch research, even in the renewable energy area.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 3:03:07 PM

@lillymunster I could ask my friend about it. He was involved in some research in that area when he started working for the wind power plants maintenance company and he knows personally some of the people involved in the environmental impact studies since some of them were conducted by researchers from our former university. I'll message him to see if he can help. What I can say about it is that the issue has been settled with our envirnmental organisations years ago when the most recent technologies were implemented.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 3:06:34 PM

There are lots of places Japan could sacrifice to focus on recovery and the changes needed to make sure it never happens again. Ironically they are the places other countries could sacrifice. Nuclear power subsidy, plant expansion, graft and waste in politics. Neutrino research is sort of the new trip to the moon so I give that a pass. What I hope Japan puts their great talent into is solving the energy mess. If anyone could pull it off in a way the rest of the world would eagerly adopt it is Japan. The recent auto promotion/show in the US held some major changes for the US. Some of the ultra small electric or electric/hybrid cars are coming to the US. They are very much the Japanese style car models too. Nobody is trying to "americanize" them. Smart cars are pretty popular here. I think these new generation cars coming mostly out of Japan is one of those things. I am hoping they release a decent plug in hybrid mini station wagon in the US in a couple of years. My VW should be due for a trade in by then.
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:11:27 PM

@Pedro Jesus I know is it a non issue today and have read lots of consumer oriented information about the new wind tech. Sometimes having a study or something with numbers in it will permanently shut up doubters. :-)
Ironically the people who complain about wind turbines out here don't really care about the environment, it is a way to be contrary and support the status quo of oil dependence.
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:14:06 PM

@lillymunster Well, there are more and more options in the electric automotive department now. In Europe almost every single car manufacturer has an electric model or is developing one. Hybrids can be seen everywhere now. Even the super sports car constructors are embracing the technology. There's already an hybrid Aston Martin (although it is a city car, not a sports car), Ferrari is working on an electric, Porsche has two hybrids, the Panamera and the Cayenne... it's a worldwide revolution in the automotive industry and the Japanese started it all through Toyota and Honda decades ago.
by Pedro Jesus 11/19/2011 3:18:12 PM

Nuclear Cars--Thorium lasers: The thoroughly plausible idea for nuclear cars. www.txchnologist.com
by MaryW 11/19/2011 3:21:20 PM

@elainekirk ooh it's a pest with the gas bottles, if you urgently need one you don't find a refilling station. i recommend having two of them.
by Edano 11/19/2011 3:21:46 PM

@Pedro Jesus The US auto market was so massively dominated by huge gas guzzling SUV's up until the last price spike we had around the same time the stock market tanked in 2008. Suddenly people realized it was a bad idea and started going to smaller vehicles and the SUV quit being a status symbol.

We don't see tons of European cars over here. Away from the big cities even less. For a while I had problems finding someone other than the dealership to work on my VW out here. We do get lots of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi vehicles. Chevy came out with the Volt but it is priced as high as a luxury car and they just discovered they start on fire if they get in a minor accident. Ford has been using Toyota's hybrid tech and Dodge is still trying to sell 10 year old fads. :-)
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:24:15 PM

@MaryW this is so sick it makes me want to vomit. there seems to be an enormous and very active thorium lobby and i would like to know who manages it in the background.
by Edano 11/19/2011 3:25:00 PM

Nuclear cars, add that right up there with the atomic toaster and the atomic pistol. :-)
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:25:00 PM

@Edano The people trying to get venture capitol to attempt to build a thorium reactor. I can't remember the names of the businesses but they are behind this rabid thorium cult. I have suspicions it is similar to the "buy gold" scams in the US where they convince people it is the unheard of great investment and find ways to rip people off in the investment scheme.
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:26:53 PM

@lillymunster maybe we should dig it out. it is mysterious for me, there must be a powerful lobby behind it. i really would like to know more. they are everywhere, they even make comments on our site.
by Edano 11/19/2011 3:28:56 PM

I am still working on putting all the budapest graphs into one page. I have them back 3 years and do show some changes. I have to wonder if there isn't a second source in Europe and if the combination was just enough to go over the threshold to read at radiation stations.
by lillymunster 11/19/2011 3:29:14 PM