Japan Earthquake | Page 2938
@Pedro Jesus guardian isnt a newspaper its a propoganda machineby elainekirk 2/2/2012 3:15:58 PM
@elainekirk So I've noticed. But this article, although strongly biased towards nuclear power, makes a very strong point. There is no denying the facts.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:17:52 PM
@Pedro Jesus the problem with that is you still have fuel to get rid of so it really doesn't solve anything and the fuel is now harder to deal with.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 3:18:44 PM- Yet another one; I think someone is pulling the strings here:
"New generation of nuclear reactors could consume radioactive waste as fuel" (Duncan Clark) www.guardian.co.ukby Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:19:50 PM 
@lillymunster I agree. There is a problem with the waste, but that is not a sensible solutionby UKVal 2/2/2012 3:20:29 PM- In the fuel cycle you would have the original spent fuel. Waste created by reprocessing. The spent fuel from the MOX or FBR reactor that is more dangerous than the original spent fuel.
So you have:
A pile of left overs from the original spent fuel.
A pile of chemicals and debris from reprocessing
A highly radioactive spent fuel that is harder to deal with.
While you get some more power out of the deal, how much power was used creating the reprocessed fuel? Now you have even more waste to deal with by volume.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 3:23:34 PM - @lillymunster well put. my sentiments exactlyby UKVal 2/2/2012 3:24:47 PM
- @lillymunster Yes, but it is far easier and cheaper to get rid of waste with a half-life of no more than a couple dozen years than the current situation where we have waste than will still be radioactive in a million years from now. Fast breeder reactor, if it works (and this, for me, is the million dollar question) would definitely solve at least one huge problem that has been accumulating for the past 40-50 years while producing energy in the process.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:25:00 PM
- @Pedro Jesus so far IIRC they have not figured a way to eat up all the long lived isotopes via a FBR. My understanding is both MOX and current FBR spent fuel is harder to handle from a waste standpoint.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 3:26:37 PM
- If they are still toying with FBR to get it to work right that technology should not be allowed in the private sector until it is a completely proven technology.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 3:27:42 PM
- @lillymunster Well, that is the big problem. They haven't figured out a way to put the theory into practice yet. That's why the Finnish project is so important and relevant. But I agree with you that, at least until the technology proves efficient, they shouldn't begin commissioning IFR prototypes everywhere (and spending enormous amounts of resources in the process). I believe the technology should first be tested and retested and that won't happen in the next couple of decades.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:31:03 PM
- And, in the mean time, the nuclear waste problem must be addressed from the short term point of view. It is not an easy issue to address.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:31:59 PM
- One way or the other, China will play a vital part in all this. They extract the lion's share of rare minerals needed to produce renewable energy power plants so they will dictate where energy technology will go. It is somehow comforting to acknowledge the huge investment in renewable energy China has made last year. But not all that glitters is gold, so the saying goes.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:38:59 PM
- This is why I see the Guardian article as dishonest. It is telling people there is a solution to the spent fuel problem when one does not really exist yet. I complain lots about the mess the US nuclear system is but some of the outright lying to the public going on in the UK about theirs is distressing.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 3:43:59 PM
- @lillymunster Yes, the article is misleading. The mention that the resulting nuclear waste has a half-life of around 20 years but «forget» to mention that radioactivity of 20-year-half-life isotopes takes over 200 years to decrease below detectable (and potentially dangerous) levels.by Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 3:47:06 PM
- Oh the Brits expect they will be lied to. Funny thing is the moral indignation here when we find out it has happened in other countries.by UKVal 2/2/2012 4:13:51 PM
- @UKVal something I noticed on the US NRC spent fuel meeting. There is an interest in real public discussion about the issue and the NRC's plans. The NRC seems focused on this parking lot storage option and is trying to sell that to the public as our "only option".by lillymunster 2/2/2012 4:31:00 PM
- this will be kicking some interesting fumes out BBC News - University of York chemistry department fire bbc.inby elainekirk 2/2/2012 4:34:25 PM
- @lillymunster It'd be good if there is real public debate in the US. I don't think it'll happen here - not just because of the dis-information when the issues are aired in the press (which is rare) but because concerns about the economy, cuts & government policies seem to drown out all else in the significant media outlets.by UKVal 2/2/2012 4:49:08 PM
- @UKVal There is ample time in US media to deal with it if they dropped the constant babble about drug addled celebrities but that is what we get. Opiate to the masses. :-(by lillymunster 2/2/2012 4:51:21 PM
- @lillymunster same here in the 'insignificant' press. Groan!by UKVal 2/2/2012 4:53:36 PM
- did people catch the Mag 6.9 quake near Vanuatu 3 hrs ago? Some sites reporting it at 7.1. No tsunami warning.by UKVal 2/2/2012 4:56:07 PM
- @UKVal There is a Fry and Laurie skit ala "its a wonderful life" where they show Rupert Murdoch what the world would be like without him. :-)by lillymunster 2/2/2012 5:00:03 PM
- @lillymunster oooo Wish I'd seen that..by UKVal 2/2/2012 5:01:50 PM
- 'Actual Fukushima worker Happy20790 tweeted about the situation of reactor4.
He states they are planning to move the spent fuel to another pool, but the pool is already full too. New building for dry cask is needed but the construction has not even started yet.
However, he says reactor 4 is in the best condition compared to other reactors'. (I think the 'other pool ' is the common pool) fukushima-diary.comby UKVal 2/2/2012 5:04:45 PM - Chinese State Grid International buys 25% of Portuguese second electric power company REN. Oman Oil Company buys 15% of REN. aeiou.expresso.ptby Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 5:10:19 PM
- Julian Assange extradition appeal - the hearing is over. Final decisions will be made public in a few weeks. www.guardian.co.ukby Pedro Jesus 2/2/2012 5:12:58 PM
- @UKVal common pool sounds about right. Whatever they would build for cask storage needs to be like their current cask building. The concrete vertical caps or modular block type would be bad. Both type had problems at North Anna due to the quakeby lillymunster 2/2/2012 5:13:18 PM
- @lillymunster Can you remember how many fuel assemblies were in #4 SFP? Happy says 1300 in that articleby UKVal 2/2/2012 5:17:02 PM
- @UKVal hmm. I can't remember off hand I want to say 1000 to 2000. Now where did I leave that bit of info???by lillymunster 2/2/2012 5:23:19 PM
- This says 1331 so Happy was pretty much correct allthingsnuclear.orgby lillymunster 2/2/2012 5:24:31 PM
- @lillymunster Got it! according to California Inst Technol presentation: Unit 4 SFP had 1,331 irradiated & 204 un-irradiated. Interestingly Unit 1 had 100 of the latter, Unit 2 +28 & Unit 3 +52by UKVal 2/2/2012 5:29:34 PM
- presentation can be accessed here: www2.galcit.caltech.eduby UKVal 2/2/2012 5:32:23 PM
- there's some photos in that presentation I hadn't seen beforeby UKVal 2/2/2012 5:47:13 PM
there was a big one earlierr:
Thursday February 2 2012, 13:34:40 UTC 4 hours ago Vanuatu 7.1 23.1 USGS Feedby Edano 2/2/2012 6:19:43 PM- fyi Republic of Vanuatu en.wikipedia.org there is an odd article about "Earthquakes in Vanuatu" en.wikipedia.orgby Edano 2/2/2012 6:24:18 PM
- Astronomers discover fourth planet that could potentially sustain life news.nationalpost.com www.zeit.de only 22 lightyears away.... so we could reach it .....by Edano 2/2/2012 6:32:46 PM
Maybe already posted but referring to fast-breeder reactor discussion below:
Japan losing hope for its pricey ‘dream reactor’.
www.washingtonpost.comby VesaVA 2/2/2012 6:32:53 PM- the fast breeder proponents work with strange and dangerous arguments. they praise the technology because it recycles nuclear waste. in other words: it needs nuclear waste in order to work, and this nuclear waste must be produced somewhere. it requires a worlwide plutonium cycle. the risk of accidents grows enormously with the transportation of plutonium and other waste. it can (and inevitably will) spread contamination in non-nuclear countries and poison the seas all over the world. if you think about it, it is pure craziness. this technology cannot be our future. this "dream" is a true nightmare.by Edano 2/2/2012 7:03:27 PM
- @Edano echo thatby elainekirk 2/2/2012 7:06:18 PM
- @Edano I see it more as a convenient excuse to divert attention away from the massive nuclear weapons stockpiles and spent fuel inventory. They always frame it as "now" technology that is ready to go, not the speculative research that it really is.by lillymunster 2/2/2012 7:06:34 PM
- unit 2 gas results www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 2/2/2012 7:07:25 PM
- nuclide results daiichi www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 2/2/2012 7:08:53 PM
- new water leaks Feb 2nd www.tepco.co.jpby elainekirk 2/2/2012 7:10:00 PM
- the false promise is: fast breeders will help us to get rid of the waste, but in fact the contrary will happen, more waste will be produced only to feed the breeders.
an analogy: if you construct a big road, you will harvest more traffic. so it is the same thinking error that big roads can help to reduce traffic.by Edano 2/2/2012 7:13:19 PM
Japan Earthquake | Page 2938
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