Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 666

by NHK Listener via I140.photobucket 4/12/2011 8:49:31 PM

@Scilla Trees
by NHK Listener 4/12/2011 8:50:27 PM

@Nancy : the other thing i wanted to tell you an error: you measured the reactor vessel having 5050 mm diameter, but that is not 5,50m as you say, it is 5,05m. just a small correction.
by edano 4/12/2011 8:52:05 PM

by edano via Wdr2.de 4/12/2011 8:53:24 PM

@edano - yes 5050mm=5.05m
by Lethbridgean 4/12/2011 8:53:47 PM

@Scilla I thought it was an object also. Most of the images of #1 are obscured of that area. The low quality of that image. It is the sidewalk but it is so jumbled it looks like a big object. Will get a crop in a few minutes.
by Nancy 4/12/2011 8:54:10 PM

@edano: another fact for you: 20th of March, #3 RPV and containment vessel was nearly 3 atm. Gasses laws tell us that means that the containment vessel was tight (or mostly tight) at this time. As the explosion occured the 14th of March, that means the containment vessel head was in place 6 days later. I guess it did not move since then.
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 8:54:29 PM

@leth, edano. Thanks for the correction. I'm metric deficient. :-)
by Nancy 4/12/2011 8:54:41 PM

@NHK Listener. I think you are right - bushes. The photo sure distorted them.
by Scilla 4/12/2011 8:54:41 PM

@edano: meant '#3 RPV and containment vessel pressure were nearly at 3 atm' (ie 0.3 MPa)
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 8:55:24 PM

@Jo Lindien so pressure readings disagree with the containment cap being off?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 8:55:31 PM

@Jo Lindien : hardly to imagine when you see the ruins.
by edano 4/12/2011 8:55:40 PM

@Nancy : if they are correct .........................
by edano 4/12/2011 8:56:13 PM

@Nancy: yes; something happened between 20th and 21th of March: #3 containment vessel dropped that night and reached atmospheric pressure; the same gasses law tell us it breached in a way or another this night.
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 8:57:44 PM

If the containment cap was on as of the 20th, the small ring of hot spots is too tight a diameter to be leaking out the yellow containment cap. Could there be heat sigs that hot UNDER the metal yellow cap that show on the heat cam? There are also some images or video from the early days that show spurts of steam coming out in small area bursts similar to the heat signature. So something was getting out?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 8:58:20 PM

@Nancy: didn't I give you a picture reference where the containment vessel head can be seen ?
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 8:58:23 PM

Nancy
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 8:59:19 PM

@jo, not sure if you sent me an image. I have tried to grab copies of all the ones I have seen come across but I now have a huge pile of images
by Nancy 4/12/2011 8:59:26 PM

@Nancy: oops... hit enter...
There may have been some leak from the same but given the pressure they might have been quite tiny ones. And the steam could have come from below: some pipes, the torus, ... who knows....
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 9:00:48 PM

@Nancy. A photo of yours is being discussed on arstechnica and I think I saw your photo link on physicsforums, too. You're famous!
by Scilla 4/12/2011 9:01:01 PM

@Nancy: how hot is it, compared to the rest of the building, approximativelly ?
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 9:02:08 PM

2.bp.blogspot.com ok, seems to be a pool.
by edano via 2.bp.blogspot 4/12/2011 9:04:04 PM

@Nancy: re-thinking of what you said: if the steam came from the same place you can see hot spots, I think you're right: the heat might indicate the points where hot gasses are leaking.
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 9:04:40 PM

Here's the heat image from the 20th (first day we have heat images) 128c they have an area by the sfp marked at 62c considerably hotter than the general building also. www.houseoffoust.com
by Nancy via Houseoffoust 4/12/2011 9:04:45 PM

@Jo, but the ring of hot spots is to small to be out the yellow containment. Could both be breached? But that would be odd that there would be a through & through pair of leaks?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:05:51 PM

@Jo, what are the odds of them faking pressure levels in that time/area? Would there be a reason to do so or are you pretty sure those numbers are real? You mentioned some iffy numbers you thought might be faked. Not sure if that could possibly be going on here or if those pressure numbers are solid and there is something more to figure out?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:07:16 PM

@Nancy : could be parts of fuel as well, no ?
by edano 4/12/2011 9:07:28 PM

@edano, like chunks laying there on top of the containment cap? If there are the temps fluctuate, we don't always see those hot spots on the heat images, they were mostly on the first day or so and not so much after.
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:08:49 PM

@Nancy : it would look to me like torus breaches, but they are too far down below some concrete floors, so they would not show so sharply.
by edano 4/12/2011 9:11:05 PM

@Nancy: we don't have the containment temperature; but the reactor temperature dropped from 300 °C to 100 °C during that day. This is consistent with the 128 °C on this pic. I think of 2 possibilities:
- the steam was coming directly from the reactor
- the steam was coming from the reactor and heating locally the containment vessel head
As the RPV pressure dropped after the containment vessel one, but did not reach atmospheric pressure then, RPV was likely leaking some gas inside the containment vessel, but not a lot.
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 9:11:40 PM

@edano - would torus show in such a small area? that is only about 5m wide
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:11:46 PM

@Nancy : i mean the connectors from torus to drywell.
by edano 4/12/2011 9:12:18 PM

by xxx via Img688.imageshack.us 4/12/2011 9:12:31 PM

Looking back to March 20th, Fukushima appeared to be under control per Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary - 5 & 6 were set to resume and radiation considered to be low: tinyurl.com
by ColorMeRed 4/12/2011 9:12:36 PM

@Jo Lindien so as in the RPV had leaks and those hot spots were where the steam was hitting inside the containment dome?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:12:46 PM

re the object -whoever said a pipe -yep that 'before image' shows a vent? pipe in the corner clearly
by UKVal 4/12/2011 9:13:11 PM

@xxx do you know what day that heat image is from?
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:13:34 PM

@Nancy: we can't be sure, but it could be this way. Do you have the time the picture was taken ?
by Jo Lindien 4/12/2011 9:13:45 PM

2.bp.blogspot.com before
by edano via 2.bp.blogspot 4/12/2011 9:15:07 PM

www.fnp.de after
by edano via Fnp.de 4/12/2011 9:15:17 PM

I will go check to see if they have times. BTW, we also have a photo of steam escaping in streams similar to the heat photo. I will see if I can find it. Maybe it will help.
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:15:46 PM

what a mess.
by edano 4/12/2011 9:15:53 PM

ALL: I think you would be interested in this report that Fiona posted in the other room www.galcit.caltech.edu
by Sinthia Domina 4/12/2011 9:16:21 PM

List of nuclear accidents and near misses. (Please feel free to add to it)

---- Scroll down to “data summary” to see list of nuclear power accidents since 1952:
www.guardian.co.uk

---- Link of 14 “Near Miss Problems” at nuclear power plants in the United States just in 2010:
www.huffingtonpost.com

----Tampa Florida's Crystal River Plant has a crack in it. www.ocala.com\

---Three nuclear power plants in the United States rate a 3 out of 5 for safety and ones the chairman of the NRC is “most concerned about”:
H.R. Robinson in South Carolina
Fort Calhoun in Nebraska
Wolfe Creek in Kansas

---More “Close Calls” at nuclear power plants:
(a) In 2002 at Davis-Besse Nuclear Station in Ohio
(b) In 1996 at Catawba in South Carolina
(c) In 1994 at Wolfe Creek in Kansas
(d) In 1991 in Shearon Harris in North Carolina
by KT39 4/12/2011 9:16:24 PM

@KT39 can you add a page for this in the FAQ? There were a bunch of minor accidents and near misses in Japan that could be added.
by Nancy 4/12/2011 9:17:12 PM