Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 682

@Nancy you have seen pics of workers standing near the buildings. They wouldn't be there if rods were laying all around the ground.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 4:59:56 PM

@Maxi will get other image angles posted this afternoon, will probably help you see what we have been discussing about that area. Should be back in 2 hours or so.
by Nancy 4/13/2011 5:00:12 PM

@FradyKat That is the area they bulldozed we know there is material there. I made not definitive statement those were rods, I posed the question.
by Nancy 4/13/2011 5:00:37 PM

I doutb a whole fuel assembly could be ejected and embed into concrete. If the water level was low likely a few pellets or parts of a few rods would be blown away. And even if an assembly ejected I expect it would shatter to smithereens on impact. The colour matches well the girders the buildings are built of however and tons of them would be spread around after the explosions
by Kristian 4/13/2011 5:00:43 PM

@FradyKat I'm with you Kat. I find it very hard to believe that whole rods, let alone whole, intact fuel assemblies would have been ejected by those explosions. I have no doubt though that some pellets might have gotten lose and might have been ejected since it is highly likely that the integrity of some fuel cladding has been compromised.
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:00:48 PM

it is not the roof, crane is between R3 and R4 building. There were very good pictures from spigel. I can't find links to them anymore in this blog
by Maxi 4/13/2011 5:00:49 PM

Pretty sure I've run across the 4m fuel rod length several times, and it is consistent with a dry cask for long term storage being 5.6m length.
by Markfm 4/13/2011 5:03:15 PM

Yes, it has been said that radioactive material is found around the buildings, and they covered it up. It doesn't seem to be that much, because the workers are not maxing out their allotted annual radiation dosages (250mSv/yr). And full rods would max them out in a few hours.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:03:56 PM

On the other hand it is highly suspicious that several workers "suddenly" become ill for no apparent reason and tepco finds no radiation on them (ahem...) And its worrying that they just bulldoze over the rods they find rather than storing them safely.
by Kristian 4/13/2011 5:07:33 PM

@mark I am getting the same figure :)
by elainekirk 4/13/2011 5:07:48 PM

@Maxi Take a look at the 2nd and 3rd images down at www.poudreinternetservice.com You're right, this has been discussed previously. I think Nancy is talking about something else.
by es 4/13/2011 5:07:52 PM

@Nancy I know you aren't making a definitive statement, I am just offering my opinion about full rods version broken pieces. Thanks :)
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:08:52 PM

version=versus
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:09:51 PM

images.scribblelive.com here is what someone thing is a rod. and here are rod assembles : images.scribblelive.com
by Maxi 4/13/2011 5:10:07 PM

images.scribblelive.com here is what someone thing is a rod. and here are rod assembles : images.scribblelive.com
by Maxi 4/13/2011 5:10:07 PM

@FradyKat According to TEPCO (lets take it for what it's worth) they have been clearing radioactive rubble from around the buildings to allow workers to get closer to the buildings, not covering it [the rubble] up. Radioactive rubble doesn't mean that there are pellets lying around. It [the rubble] could have been contaminated by radioactive particles that got airborne after the explosions (and there is evidence that that has happened) in the process as soil has become contaminated (even with plutonium).
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:11:11 PM

@Maxi Yes, that's the one [of the cranes]. Check the archives back round about when Jeff Ried posted that here and there's undobtedly some discussion about it.
by es 4/13/2011 5:12:28 PM

@Kat Sorry, I didn't mean to quote you on this last post. It was only my general thoughts about this matter.
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:12:28 PM

@Pedro Yes, particulate contamination seems very likely, and they are clearing that debris to various piles around the plant.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:13:20 PM

@Maxi That picture shows a fuel assembly with some rods in place and some empty spaces. I've also seen fuel assemblies painted other colours but still none of the pictures I've seen look anything like those other pictures we've been addressing.
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:14:20 PM

@Maxi We know that's a crane truck. I'm not sure Nancy was pointing to it so much as the area. Whichever, we're all volunteering to spend hours of our "free" time a day tearing apart data and images, because we care. Try to remember, the whole lesson of this entire planetary clusterphucque we're going through these past few years is learning to work together. Civility goes a long way toward facilitating that.
by radioguy 4/13/2011 5:14:36 PM

@FradyKat That's my understanding as well.
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:14:49 PM

Sometimes all we have are questions, but we've been ahead of the curve all along, so I guess the approach works. Re: the asemblies, yes, like that, but those assemblies look to be from somewhere else, because we've seen documentation that the Daiichi (not sure if R1) uses 8x8 assemblies.
by radioguy 4/13/2011 5:18:14 PM

I'm here because I care , and I'm trying to help with what I can. Chernobil was pretty close to my town (750 km), So I lived it and remember it... And we had lot more radiation here than people in Tokyo now.
by Maxi 4/13/2011 5:18:21 PM

@Maxi Cool. I know. You've been at it for a while too. It's just that there's a lot of fractious energy in the air right now. You see it everywhere. It's a chore not to give in to it, but we all have to try. Sorry if I was brusque.
by radioguy 4/13/2011 5:20:50 PM

@Maxi Do you know how feasible it is to decontaminate land, to reclaim it for use?
by kgriff 4/13/2011 5:21:13 PM

Bulldozing was specifically cited in the 26 March NRC report, page 13 "the very high dose rate material that had to be bulldozed over between Units 3 and 4." I don't have reason to believe NRC was inaccurate -- they were stating something, not conjecturing.
by Markfm 4/13/2011 5:22:53 PM

@Maxi welcome it is good to have somebody with first hand knowledge of contamination/decontamination on the boards :)
by elainekirk 4/13/2011 5:22:54 PM

@Markfm I remember them saying that. And later they reported about debris removal and stacking in piles.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:24:17 PM

@mark with you on that one it was a good 24hrs before they switched to 'being moved' and even if they did move it plutonium adheres to concrete doesn't it? I think there is some kind of reaction between the two that bonds them and as the whole area is concreted...
by elainekirk 4/13/2011 5:24:44 PM

@Markfm Yes, I remember that report and I also remember TEPCO's report from where NRC got that information. Trying to find the link.
by Pedro Jesus 4/13/2011 5:25:22 PM

Right after the accident started I recall looking stuff up online, how hard it was to, basically, power wash the stuff off of concrete -- really nasty chemicals needed.
by Markfm 4/13/2011 5:26:12 PM

They bulldozed the area between R2 and R3 about 2 weeks ago, and it was only 3-4 days ago then announced plans to establish debris piles.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:26:18 PM

I am sorry - I meant R3 and R4
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:26:56 PM

Massive spike of I-131, Cs-137 levels 100 miles from Fukushima after radiation skyrocketed off the chart at No. 1 reactor following recent quake enenews.com Also note large spike in Tokyo isotope levels Apr 11-12 ftp.jaist.ac.jp
by Bobby1 4/13/2011 5:27:27 PM

They have to remove debris , and put them in some big hole. Some ground and debris will be decontaminated naturally , others not. Depend of the material and how much radioactive dust they had.
by Maxi 4/13/2011 5:28:07 PM

@Bobby1 I saw those and looked all around for any official explanation. Was there ever one?
by radioguy 4/13/2011 5:29:06 PM

@radioguy I think they said the meter was broken
by Bobby1 4/13/2011 5:29:43 PM

@Bobby1 Look at the values on the 21st and 22nd, they are a lot more then 100.
by FradyKat 4/13/2011 5:30:42 PM

@FradyKat Yup.
by Bobby1 4/13/2011 5:31:39 PM

Re: the rods lying around. Could any of it have been fresh fuel that they were preparing to load into no. 4?
by bojack54 4/13/2011 5:33:40 PM

Radiation had been lowish, then 30+, then 100, then 68 or so, then declared broken. That looks more like an event was occurring, significant release of something going on. Since had successfully reported the 30, 100, then lowering to 60s, surprising to see it then declared broken.
by Markfm 4/13/2011 5:33:51 PM

I bet "broken" means it went off the scale
by Kristian 4/13/2011 5:35:39 PM

Rods are only about 4m long. I've seen people asking questions about objects much larger than 4m, not credible, haven't seen photos pointing to 4m objects. Concerning fuel, #4 unused fuel was in their SFP, per reports.
by Markfm 4/13/2011 5:35:42 PM

@radioguy @Markfm Venting? I believe they have been venting with favorable winds, but this was the recent rainstorm, with the webcam showing nasty fog & smoke, unfavorable winds... maybe they had to vent anyway. Just trying to guess.
by Bobby1 4/13/2011 5:35:58 PM