Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 785

@Nancy right, something happened quickly. Mass is too large to cool that quickly otherwise.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:27:14 AM

@dean Interesting hypothesis, hadn't thought of that.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:28:09 AM

Safe to say something left the system.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:28:51 AM

I find it sort of amazing that they can measure anything with the transients that have gone on inside the vessel... ie level systems usually have a dash pot for high side that would probably have lost fluid,, RTD's or TE's measuring temperatures that over range the instruments.. etc..
by dean 4/21/2011 12:28:59 AM

Reactor 2, core bottom temp 183 on 4.13 at 6am. core bottom temp 69 on 4. 13 at 12am. core bottom temp -116 on 4.15 at 12am. Stupid question do they consider 12am to be the end of the 15th? I am assuming so. If so the -116 is after the explosion that was at 13:00 on the 15th
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:29:03 AM

maybe that's why the level systems been reading nearly the same all this time ..
by dean 4/21/2011 12:29:25 AM

this page fukushimadatapage.com
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:29:33 AM

But as workers focused on transferring the water piling up around the No. 2 reactor turbine building of the seaside Fukushima Daiichi plant and the so-called trench connected to it, the water level of another trench connected to the No. 3 reactor turbine building is edging up, the government's nuclear agency said. english.kyodonews.jp
by Rob in SF 4/21/2011 12:30:23 AM

@dean - Interesting thing. I looked up the fission yields on WikiPedia and noted that C-137 is created at a little more than 2x that of I-131.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_product_yield#Ordered_by_yield_.28thermal_neutron_fission_of_U-235.29 - It's very interesting that the iodine levels would be higher than the cesium levels (#4 SFP).
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:30:51 AM

@dean That has bothered me..i would assume more flucuation than that. the curves are just too straight.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:31:10 AM

They really are in a world of trouble with that water now.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:32:23 AM

@Jim Carver sorry jim went back about seven pages and the only link i found was the tinysomethng???? and i don't feel comfortable opening it.. but if it pops up again its interesting...
by fitter 4/21/2011 12:33:26 AM

hank good seeing you look into things and come up with that... you would be good at monitoring for FRESH FISSION FRAGMENTS.. then relate back to what level of criticality caused it
by dean 4/21/2011 12:33:34 AM

My idea about the mud is starting to sound better.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:33:47 AM

@Hank Scorpio Are you looking at these numbers for #4 SFP ?
An analysis of water samples taken from the storage pool on April 16 found cesium-134 at 160,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, cesium-137 at 150,000 becquerels and iodine-131 at 4,100 becquerels.
by Reed 4/21/2011 12:34:05 AM

@Jim Carver whats the mud therory???
by fitter 4/21/2011 12:34:23 AM

@Reed - Those numbers are from #2.
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:34:25 AM

@fitter Fill the lower levels with bentonite.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:34:55 AM

What was that report? They have 30,000 cubic meters of water in the sub basement of R2 that are going to get out, and they'll have 10,000 of it out in a month?
by radioguy 4/21/2011 12:34:59 AM

The numbers from #4 are something like 88 becquerels/cm3 of cesium 137 and 230 bequerels/cm3 of iodine 131.
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:35:41 AM

japan will probably haul the water over off the russian coast and dump it.. to retaliate for the russions dropping some cores off the japanese coast
by dean 4/21/2011 12:35:48 AM

Whatever happened to that float thing from Russia? Why aren't they digging pools?
by Scilla 4/21/2011 12:36:51 AM

@dean LOL... the Russians to gave them a perfect out.
by radioguy 4/21/2011 12:36:53 AM

@Scilla So many questions... So DAMNNED much water.
by radioguy 4/21/2011 12:37:24 AM

@Scilla It holds 1 million cubic meters?
by radioguy 4/21/2011 12:38:07 AM

@dean ah but the boat they helped the russians out with to store the sub water in is now being loaned to them by the russians to help them in their hour of need ......
by elainekirk 4/21/2011 12:38:29 AM

another idea before I leave.. maybe they can take that radioactive water and put it up between unfriendly countries. as a DMZ..
by dean 4/21/2011 12:38:31 AM

@radioguy That water's the big deal now. Pollution of the ocean--very bad.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:38:37 AM

@Jim Carver at some point it is no longer diluted beyond being a problem and starts to become a major one.
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:39:34 AM

they have been pumping out at the rate of 10 tons per hour over the last day
by fitter 4/21/2011 12:39:43 AM

It's the pollution of the coastline, not the ocean itself, which presents the biggest problem.
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:39:53 AM

@fitter if you see one of my tiny links they are fine pdf's dont link very well on here so I just get a tiny url for them :)
by elainekirk 4/21/2011 12:40:20 AM

It goes from plankton all the way up to large fish/marine mammals.
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:40:24 AM

@elainekirk IIRC, that rad filter boat is VERY slow at what it does. Sounds like more smoke & mirrors...
by Rob in SF 4/21/2011 12:40:45 AM

@elainekirk ok i did'nt know what it was.... do you have the video of the scroud repalcement could you repost for jim
by fitter 4/21/2011 12:41:38 AM

@Hank they had plans very very early for the government to buy up all coastal land and only allow building above 30mtrs
by elainekirk 4/21/2011 12:41:58 AM

@Hank Scorpio if it is supposed to be 2 to 1 for cesium those numbers make no sense.
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:42:00 AM

shroud replacement vid www.youtube.com
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:42:23 AM

uwf.edu There are 660,253 gallons in one Olympic sized swimming pool. Levels of radioactive water rising despite efforts
The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant continues to transfer highly radioactive water near a reactor to a storage facility. Tokyo Electric Power Company says work has been underway since Tuesday to move 10,000 tons of highly contaminated water accumulated in the turbine building of the Number 2 reactor to an on-site waste processing facility. The water has been pumped into the facility at a rate of 10 tons per hour.
TEPCO says the toxic water level in a tunnel near the turbine building was 2 centimeters lower as of 6 PM on Wednesday. But it says because there was no change in the water level in the basement of the turbine building, the leaking of toxic water into the basement appears to be continuing.

The utility company also says the water level in a tunnel linked to the Number 3 reactor has been rising several centimeters a day for the past week. The water is expected to rise to about one meter below the ground level soon.

The company says water levels are also rising in the Number 5 and 6 turbine buildings.

TEPCO says an estimated 67,500 tons of contaminated water are now in the Number 1, 2 and 3 reactors alone, hampering efforts to restore the reactors' cooling systems.

The utility says at the Number 1 reactor, some cooling water poured in has likely evaporated.

Thursday, April 21, 2011 06:08 +0900 (JST) www3.nhk.or.jp

Conversions: 10 tons = 7480 gallons 10,000 tons =7,480,519 gallons 67,500 tons = 504,93,506 gallons. Converter used: www.unitconversion.org
by Sin via Uwf.edu 4/21/2011 12:43:31 AM

When they talk about the possibility of flooding the reactors.....will that happen by default if the water outpaces them?
by Scilla 4/21/2011 12:44:17 AM

@Nancy - I know. It could be that cesium is heavier than iodine, and in a leaking pool, it leaves at a much higher rate. It could also be a matter of deposition during rain, though I don't know how each of those isotopes behave towards rain.
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:44:25 AM

@Hank Scorpio would be nice if they added notes that would give a clue about such things.
by Nancy 4/21/2011 12:45:05 AM

@Scilla The aim would be to cool them more quickly than the current stategy, and if the water's going to keep dribbling into the sea, that's probably the best option.
by Jim Carver 4/21/2011 12:46:56 AM

mdn.mainichi.jp
(T)he operator also plans to build a facility to treat the radioactive water on the premises of the nuclear power complex by the end of June. Water with lower radiation and salt content after being treated at the facility will be used again to cool down the reactors or will be transferred to a vast floating structure called a "Mega-Float" that can hold 10,000 tons of water and stored there. By repeating this process, the operator plans to reduce the amounts of highly radioactive water.
by Rob in SF via Mdn.mainichi.jp 4/21/2011 12:49:58 AM

@Nancy - All I know is that there's something really screwy about the numbers, and as much as I hate to say it, the more I think about it the more I think Arnie Gunderson's take on the matter is very superficial. How can we properly extrapolate the previous levels when the ratios of nuclides are inverted?
by Hank Scorpio 4/21/2011 12:50:22 AM