Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 819

from TV : 90° in #4 ? is that correct ?
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:06:41 PM

@Edano Wow. We are getting no temps for 4 SFP and have not for days.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:07:06 PM

That would explain all the steam out of it if that is the temp
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:07:22 PM

@Nancy Yeah, the video about SL-1 mentioned that, I think.
by Bobby1 4/23/2011 6:07:26 PM

@Nancy : ah, it was just on TV news.
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:07:42 PM

@Edano That SFP in 4 was 90 degrees. They did say they were going to put temp and geiger monitors on the water cranes. What TV channel had it?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:08:28 PM

@Nancy : they also said, govJ is concerned that the reactors cannot withstand a further quake due to the water weight. tepco makes plans to build walls around the reactors (like a pool). it wasw german tv (ard).
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:10:09 PM

@Elaine - regarding the mobile. page you wanted translated a few hours ago. The gist of it is that "Iwaki is safe" Let me know if you want more detailed translation. (I'm just running it through google translate right now.)
by kaykodh 4/23/2011 6:10:50 PM

@kaykodh thanklyou it was a tweet that stood out for some reason so I just had to reassure myself I wasn't missing anything I couldnt get google translate to work with it
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:12:49 PM

@Edano thanks, can you keep an eye out for that 90 degree sfp reading in a print source, maybe a web article later today for the TV channel? It would be good to have a print source for records. Everyone was wondering what was up yesterday. There was steam out of 3 &4 and the second blue glow that showed up.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:13:01 PM

@nancy 10hrs ago 91 mdn.mainichi.jp
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:13:29 PM

@elainekirk - I don't know what browser you're working with, but I'm using the latest version of Chrome on my mac, which has a neat feature of automatically asking me if I want to translate whatever page I'm on. So it seems to function within the browser rather than me having to go to the actual google translate webpage.
by kaykodh 4/23/2011 6:14:09 PM

@elainekirk Great! but not great news. The pool is also low on water. Why is this now going out of control?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:14:29 PM

@kaykodh google results have a translate button in the results independent from the browser
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:15:09 PM

@Nancy : i think they reduced spraying because they wanted the water out of the "puddles". just an assumption. they are in a vicious circle with the water. but we knew that before, no ?

by Edano 4/23/2011 6:16:54 PM

@Edano the watering is creating side effects that seem to be becoming worse than the original problem. How they let it get so low seems reckless but maybe they really are flying blind. As far as we know they don't have cameras set up (they should). No built in sensors working on #4 for the SFP thus the gauges they put on yesterday.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:19:18 PM

I mentioned the need to recirculate some of that water run off. It would concentrate radioactivity but would ease the water problems.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:20:15 PM

IE: find a water trench with lower radioactivity, dump a sump pump into it and use that to spray or feed in water.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:20:55 PM

@Nancy : of course, but robots cannot build a piping circulation system yet. btw, the tv news (prime time) i reported from is not private channel, they are half-official. they only report things that are absolutely serious. but better would be printed.
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:24:09 PM

@kaykodh yup I am chrome too but I just couldnt get that nifty little bar to pop up and ask me chrome is set to auto translate japanese but it wouldnt touch that maybe cos it was a mobile page? I dunno
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:25:36 PM

They can't balance the water levels because there are just too many variables involved. For instance, how many cracks are in the foundation of the facility and what's the water flow rate escaping by that route? How many cracks are in the SFPs of Reactors 1-4, where are they located, and again, what's the water flow rate escaping through those cracks? Also, what's the rate of evaporation? TEPCO is trying to control the heavily-damaged Fukushima facility very much like a pilot trying to steer a jet airliner with just the engines after the rudder has totally malfunctioned.
by James Ward 4/23/2011 6:26:04 PM

@Edano look at elaine's link below. She found it in Japanese press. At least they are telling the media something. This lack of information is really bothering me. This incident is international. They can't just clam up and try to keep it secret. They honestly risk criminal prosecution by hiding and covering up where open flow of information could actually protect them from prosecution if it is seen they are making their best efforts. Hiding things gets more people in trouble their their actual actions...
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:26:09 PM

@nancy the pool was stacked wasnt it and that pic I found was #4 pool wasn't it? that impact on the side of #4 was that near the fuel pool? I am just thinking if impact 'pushed ' the poolside and ...
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:28:44 PM

@James Ward I suppose if you do look at it from the technical model as you mentioned they just can't because they don't have enough facts. Doing it low tech is hard too since they can't just peer into the pools as needed. Edano mentioned something I forgot. They have really limited access to many areas due to the high radiation. They sent a guy into remove the concrete chunk. He probably got quite a dose of radiation doing that even with shielding. Have they said how much ability they have to get into certain areas yet?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:28:52 PM

@Nancy if the top stack was damaged and matter sank onto the bottom rack the rod casings would have reacted and ballooned wouldnt they ?
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:30:46 PM

TEPCO To Cautiously Inject Water In No 4 Fuel Pool. April23. 2011. "...water temperature was about 91 Degrees Celsius on Friday..." http//www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/23_12.html
by MaryW 4/23/2011 6:30:59 PM

www.tribalwar.com
by peter 4/23/2011 6:31:05 PM

@elainekirk 4 is the one where the sides below it have wall panels gone and it looks like it is hanging on the edge of the building. I don't know if they had 4 double stacked with rods. I don't think so but they were tight packed. They also had some reactor parts on top of the rods in that pool. Those parts have some residual radiation. Others said they can continue to give off heat. Having all that in the pool during an EQ could have done who knows what to the boron partitions or the racks.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:31:07 PM

@MaryW link didn't work?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:32:01 PM

it was about 1500 assemblis in #4 pool wasnt it ?
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:32:21 PM

Here is a big curve ball in the concrete object speculation "Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, says its workers detected radioactivity of 900 millisieverts per hour being emitted from a 30-by-30 centimeter concrete fragment, 5 centimeters thick, on Wednesday." www3.nhk.or.jp
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:33:55 PM

Japenese detailed assessment of 'Impact of nuclear power plant accident' I find it Very interesting they can assess the effects to the country of Japan in such specific and detailed manor and manage to screw up Fukishima 's mess SO completely. translate.google.com
by ch 4/23/2011 6:36:46 PM

@elainekirk I think so. I lost my source for the SFP numbers. I need to put all this important data into a spreadsheet.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:37:11 PM

@ch link went 404?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:38:36 PM

@Nancy NHK and @radioguy are usually good for those numbers
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:38:46 PM

@elainekirk I had the document and can't find it in my mess. I also have about 25 browser tabs open right now. :-)
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:39:24 PM

@Nancy If the fragment was from #3, it would indicate that the concrete reaction was from there. The fragment itself might be involved in the goop, but could have just been splattered by it.
by Bobby1 4/23/2011 6:40:03 PM

Sorry I'm just learning how to link, translate etc. let me try again. www.mext.go.jp
by ch 4/23/2011 6:40:36 PM

@Bobby1 could be lots of things, a really small piece though? Splattered by goop would probably do it? It must have been a chip off of something, 5cm is pretty thin to be any of the structures.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:42:27 PM

@Nancy : if you take the water out of the cellar, it maybe up to 40° or 50°, while fresh water is 5-10°. that makes a big cooling difference. there is no heat exchange system (anymore).
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:43:09 PM

@Edano Supposedly Areva has a cooling system coming but I have a feeling it will be too little and possibly too late by the time they get it installed.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:44:20 PM

@Nancy A full analysis on the fragment would tell us a lot, but I doubt that we will see it.
by Bobby1 4/23/2011 6:45:11 PM

@Nancy ;) who believes in santa claus ? ;)
by Edano 4/23/2011 6:45:14 PM

@Nancy november 2010
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 6:47:38 PM

@Edano LOL. One of the articles the other day called their plan to get things under control a christmas wish list, not a plan. :-)
by Nancy 4/23/2011 6:48:08 PM