Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 864

@Optim - we got a blueprint that we shouldn't have had, so I think leaving this to someone else just is not an acceptable response, sorry@Jim Carver - I really agree Jim.
by Lethbridgean 4/27/2011 3:35:38 PM

@Lethbridgean that was very well said and I agree. It seems odd that MSM has little difficulty accumulating information, video and photographs in War zones but can't seem to acquire the same level of documentation about Fukushima Daiichi. I hope that made sense, I'm fighting the flu and really don't feel well at all.
by Tenzing 4/27/2011 3:38:45 PM

hey fitter.. good to see you back in
by dean 4/27/2011 3:38:47 PM

@Peter Melzer Probably just pushing them to the limit of needing medical care. The long terms is more grim i'm afraid.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 3:40:12 PM

@Tenzing I have multiple chemical sensitivity, and have had radiation symptoms for a week now.
by Bobby1 4/27/2011 3:40:33 PM

@Lethbridgean, the patients will end up here: theearthquakeandbeyondajapanjournal.wordpress.com .
by Peter Melzer 4/27/2011 3:41:03 PM

fwiw -- In the Japanese-only attachments to METI status reports, there are updates about radiation screening & follow-up on some workers. It would be useful to get a good translation -- I may have missed this in the English versions or news reports. I expect that is information is pretty limited. See first attachment in the April 23 Report as an example:

www.meti.go.jp
Around Page 26 in the first Attachment is some follow-up on radiation exposure for residents and workers. including a section on a 4/11 follow-up to 3 workers exposed to ~2-3 Sv. It's in Japanese - haven't seen an English version.Really rough translation via google:

(5) …..such employee had been working with s Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station in excess of the Ku 100mSv workers,
30 people in total. The names of the three workers, two for the radioactive material with the skin of both feet
Check the wear, since it is determined Aruto or the possibility of burn-ray data s F, then transported to Medical University Hospital prefectural island of Kyushu on March 24, followed Chiba even three workers on March 25 arrived in the Radiological Sciences. Test results, under the feet of the two amounts Ku is 2 ~ 3Sv is estimated, under the internal s Hi 及 feet Hanakattaga to Level needed s or treatment with Ku, even three, was to see the progress in the hospital. Subete a discharge or three people around noon on March 28. Three workers with such re-examination on April 11, s with NIRS, health problems also had three. The subject of local erythema and s both legs and symptoms of skin burns Kunoatta two names are not allowed…..
by Deirdre 4/27/2011 3:45:17 PM

@Carver: We definitely have a role to play. Local japanese media and japanese folks should be more active though. The lack of interest from japanese is alarming. Either that or all news reports are severely censored. We all know what is true.
by Optim 4/27/2011 3:45:18 PM

2 dean There was a question about how the rods are moved around and I was a little curious myself. I think Nancy desribed some sort of a flume system once. Have anything about that?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 3:45:32 PM

From the businessweek article linked be Debra Beckham below. Hold on the unit 1 flooding:
by Scilla 4/27/2011 3:46:45 PM

Radiation from the station, where four of six reactors have been damaged by explosions, has forced the evacuation of tens of thousands of people and contaminated farmland and drinking water. A plan to flood the containment vessel of reactor No. 1 with more water to speed up emergency cooling efforts announced yesterday by the utility known as Tepco may not be possible now.

“Tepco must figure out the source of high radiation,” said Hironobu Unesaki, a nuclear engineering professor at Kyoto University. “If it’s from contaminated water leaking from inside the reactor, Tepco’s so-called water tomb may be jeopardized because flooding the containment vessel will result in more radiation in the building.”
by Scilla 4/27/2011 3:46:55 PM

@dean I was wondering especially about how they transfer to the ground level (common) pool. Seems like plant layout could have been better and i guess the design of the BWR creates more work anyway?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 3:49:15 PM

brb
by dean 4/27/2011 3:49:27 PM

@Lethbridgean
Chibanishi-General Hospital © 2007
107-1 Kanegasaku Matsudo city, Chiba pref., JAPAN.
Tel +81-47-384-8111, Fax +81-47-384-9403 Chiba-Nishi General Hospital in Matsudo City serves the community as a core general hospital. We receive patients both from Japan and from countries in Asia, the US, Europe, and Africa thanks to our convenient access - 1 hour from the Tokyo Metropolitan area - and to high-performance evaluations of our clinical departments. As a core hospital of the Tokushukai Medial Group, the biggest medical corporation in Japan, we are working to improve medical services and train physicians working with hospitals worldwide.

Hospital Overview
Name: Chiba-Nishi Sogo Byoin
(Chiba-Nishi General Hospital)
Address: 107-1 Kanegasaku, Matsudo, Chiba
President: Torao Tokuda
Medical Center Director: Kazuo Misumi
Site area:
Building area: 4,779 m2
Floor area: 18,023 m2
Building: reinforced concrete, 6 stories, 1 basement, and 1 penthouse
Parking lot capacity: 600 cars
Clinical Departments: general internal medicine, cardiology, respiratory medicine, surgery, gastroenterology, pediatrics, obstetrics and gynecology, orthopedic surgery, cardiovascular surgery, plastic surgery, neurosurgery, urology, ophthalmology, otolaryngology, dermatology, dental surgery, rehabilitation, psychosomatic medicine, neurology, anesthesia, pathology, and radiology.
Facilities: Heart disease center, Aorta center, Kidney (dialysis) center, Rehabilitation center, Outpatient surgery center, Health care center, Endoscopy center, and Critical care department.
Number of beds: 408 (as authorized by the Medical Care Law).
Equipment: three digital subtraction angiography (DSA) machines, one radioisotope machine, two MRI units, two CT scanners, one ESWL machine, 44 dialyzers, etc.

by Tenzing 4/27/2011 3:50:04 PM

I posted this on the other board accidentally. I was wondering whether one can tell whether this is a mechanical or an electrical gauge: www.tepco.co.jp
by Peter Melzer via Tepco.co.jp 4/27/2011 3:50:29 PM

@Peter Melzer Looks like a mechanical vac gauge to me.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 3:51:50 PM

Just jumping in mid-stream, as it were. But as far as communicating info to the public, what about communicating with Wikileaks or some such organization and seeing if they can make recommendations about the best way to do it. I'm thinking something along the lines of a press release, rather than letters to the government. What really needs to happen is a survey of what online forums exist in japanese where people are interested in this info. I can start taking a look at that, but not for another week.
by kaykodh 4/27/2011 3:52:48 PM

And, I just realized taht should have been onthe other board. Sorry! (And now I have to run!)
by kaykodh 4/27/2011 3:53:11 PM

@Jim Carver , according to Rob in SF, it is the pressure gauge for the Unit 1 Primary Containment Vessel. Oha!
by Peter Melzer 4/27/2011 3:55:58 PM

@Nancy Regarding underground water storage, early on, maybe mar 15, I saw an article refering to ground water levels (normal) being very high. This neccessitated near continuous pumping from "shafts" to the sea, to prevent "floating" of the concrete slab. Can you help be get additional info on the normal ground water height? Is this contributing to the liquid they have to deal with at the site?
by RBeaner 4/27/2011 3:56:47 PM

Rob in SF posted link to this NHK article previously: www3.nhk.or.jp . It says TEPCO will spray 1 million cubic meters of "resin" on 500,000 square meters of the Fukushima Daichi plant grounds, to fix radioactive particles and dust in place. Um, did anybody else do the math? If it's true (it clearly can't be!) that would mean there'd be two meters worth of the glop covering the ground!
by General Armchair 4/27/2011 3:56:55 PM

Rob in SF posted this previously: www3.nhk.or.jp
by General Armchair 4/27/2011 3:56:58 PM

@Nancy THawk video, by reactor martynwilliams.posterous.com
by RBeaner 4/27/2011 3:56:59 PM

@Reed You Said "I read here that the global renewable energy output surpassed the nuclear energy output for the first time this year." and I kind of agree, but "The share of renewables in electricity generation is around 18%, with 15% of global electricity coming from hydroelectricity and 3% from new renewables." en.wikipedia.org (I don't usually like Wiki but at least they provide references) while 14% of world energy is provided by nuclear www.world-nuclear.org Hydeoelectricity has been in actual decline as communities realize the negative impact on wildlife and ecosystems. In some cases actually dismantling viable sources of energy in favor of normal fish life. True renewable, no future/current after construction imact is like 3% of total power.
by RBeaner 4/27/2011 3:57:01 PM

@All Sorry I felt the need to change my name, don't want to be assosiated to closely with a Homeland Security Risk, Nancy:) A lot of hay has been made about the NY Academy of Scientists recent report on Chernobyl effects www.nyas.org and I thought it was informative to see that there is internal dissencion on this risk report atomicinsights.com "A year ago, when the report came in, it was immediately apparent that it was not a scientific report, had numerous demonstrably false statements, and was not an appropriate report for a scientific academy." An auspicious name attached to a Rent-a-Study.
by RBeaner 4/27/2011 3:57:02 PM

@Peter Melzer I magine that's it. Mechanical gauges are good, way more reliable in this case.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 3:57:32 PM

@RBeaner Ah, but wind remains the most unexploited resources with the least environmental impact. Although I did see something about the turbines killing too many birds.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:00:25 PM

@Jim Carver, but what happens when the pipe feeding the transducer gets squeezed?
by Peter Melzer 4/27/2011 4:00:36 PM

@Peter Melzer true, well nothing is perfect....
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:01:48 PM

back.. Jim are you talking about new fuel elements?
by dean 4/27/2011 4:01:59 PM

or recycled ones
by dean 4/27/2011 4:01:59 PM

@dean I think we were wondering from reactor to pool.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:02:49 PM

@dean Put them sticks in the river and float 'em downstream?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:06:06 PM

@dean hello... still waiting on the electritions... i was wondering about the ones that are spent but not old enough for the casket....
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:09:04 PM

@fitter ...or someone like him. :)
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:10:19 PM

@dean the ones from the containment blds... to the common pools.,. they would still need to be underwater ?????? (while in transport)
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:11:28 PM

@Jim Carver hello, yes ... and in ref to the gauge... it has one line going to it that i can see ... looks like conduit.. ????, but the gague looks mechanical.. except it has a rather large box that it sit in...??? (looks kinda old tech also????)
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:13:45 PM

back.. my pc is giving me fits
by dean 4/27/2011 4:14:06 PM

the spent fuel elements are put in a cask, which is decontaminated on the outside and then taken to the common bldgs and off loaded into the canal
by dean 4/27/2011 4:15:35 PM

before they can be shipped like that they must cool to the 30-300 Watt POWER output level or what ever the time is so the fuel elements won't over heat while enroute to the common pool
by dean 4/27/2011 4:16:44 PM

@fitter Conduit for the pressure/vac line. Low tech is good though. Digitals can spit out anything and you wouldn't know if it was 1% or 100%
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:17:20 PM

@dean That seems like a lot of handling.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:18:03 PM

in is indeed Jim, they probably do alot of it during an outage and then after the outage transfering back and forth etc.
by dean 4/27/2011 4:19:32 PM

But they are put in a cask and stay there until shipped. So they are ready to ship at the common pool.?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:19:36 PM

@Jim Carver the more pics of pumps and gauges i see i am starting to wonder if they just found an old plant somewhere and made a liabery..... we work in some old plants, but the equipment i keep seeing is extinct....????
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:20:18 PM