Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 865

@Peter Melzer sorry, I was on a phone call. I owned an old VW beetle in college. I know exactly how efficient air cooling is. Same with my motorcycle I had in college. Don't drive on a 109 degree day and stop at a light after being on the freeway. Things get hot fast. Maybe this "air cooled" is a form of a cooling tower and air cooled is a misnomer.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 4:22:03 PM

@fitter would it have been used in 1969?
by Nancy 4/27/2011 4:22:27 PM

@fitter Yeah, I agree. I have some gauges from some old eqipment used to make computer chips in the 80's that look like that. Good solid stuff tho.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:22:33 PM

@Nancy thats about the right year!!!
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:22:52 PM

typically Jim, the go through a shipping campaign and go from the pool to the combined pool with no lengthy time in the cask
by dean 4/27/2011 4:23:29 PM

@Nancy i think air cooled is a terminalogy issue like the "puddle" a beer plant the building will be seven floors high and the lenght of a football field and on a 95 deg day you need you jacket and hat!
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:24:32 PM

@dean Well, hmm, not left in the cask. That's disappointing. Just a transport cask. Not one that would be used for long-term storage.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:27:26 PM

@Nancy security hasn't piked you up yet???? the cooling systems is the size of a large building... to cool these tank buildings... the temp is the same as a refegerater....
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:27:27 PM

@dean are the common pools covered??? or in a "containment designed bld"
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:28:25 PM

@nancy..... forgot these blds DO have roofs!!!
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:29:18 PM

@fitter those systems are in a nice sealed building. Might work on #2. on #3? Sounds like screen doors on a submarine. :-) Homeland Insecurity hasn't paid me a visit yet.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 4:29:57 PM

Fitter has there been a discussion about which instruments would be wiped out in such a high gamma field and which would survive
by dean 4/27/2011 4:30:13 PM

so how about them clouds of volatilized plutonium going round the world that cant be good for health. Cant beat a nice clean green power source.
by e123 4/27/2011 4:32:21 PM

@dean ahven't seen any but in between "internet glitch" i was trying to contact Predue Unv.. they do the major training programs for the UA fitter/ teachers... wanted to see if they had any bloging or info going on.... no luck yet
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:32:35 PM

@Nancy, yes, I tried to correct myself. They cannot possibly wish to use air for direct cooling. I imagine that they want to set up a cooling tower as a reliable heat exchanger for the water they intent to circulate through the containment vessel.
by Peter Melzer 4/27/2011 4:33:06 PM

@Jim Carver @fitter - Mechanicall type of guages are used close to the point of measurement because they have to be connected with tubing, and digital guages are what they have in the control room for use with the computer or PLC system, both are always used together in plants. They both have pro's and con's but are generally used together always as a check and balance.
by Lethbridgean 4/27/2011 4:33:06 PM

@dean but the older mecahnical instruments are probably better because of the rad
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:33:15 PM

@Lethbridgean I have a GPS that can give my heading and speed, but we still use pitot tubes and compasses also.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:35:21 PM

And a mechanical (analog) flight computer.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:36:12 PM

nope Jim.. I think they hold 4 or so is all ,
by dean 4/27/2011 4:36:32 PM

nuclear reactor facilities have some pretty tight specifications for instrumentation to remain functional in high gamma fields, typically from what I've seen the pneumatic sytems for pressure, delta pressure and flow would probably be on unless there is a printed circuit board on in the location of the transmitter what would get fried in an extreme gamma field
by dean 4/27/2011 4:37:17 PM

@Peter Melzer @dean they could be thinking of gas exchangers.... we are assuming water, it would be the most ecomomical, but some systems (high tect/expensive, but necessary) operate using a gas exchange...
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:37:24 PM

@Jim Carver - and GPS's tend to put every pilots flight path right on each other. Lots of mid air collisions when they first out.
by Lethbridgean 4/27/2011 4:37:25 PM

@Lethbridgean, Jim, fitter, I also believe in the durability of mechanical devices. The point I was trying to get at was that I do not understand quite yet what they were trying to gain from this picture. Could anyone decipher what the dial says? In order to know whether the gauge is still working, one would need to know whether the readings change, no?
by Peter Melzer 4/27/2011 4:38:04 PM

anyone know how many tons was in number 3 spent fuel pool was like how many reactors worth is that.
by e123 4/27/2011 4:38:06 PM

canteach.candu.org
by dean 4/27/2011 4:38:50 PM

canteach.candu.org nice input for EXTERNAL RADIATION HAZARDS.. with some good information and rad surveys after shutdowns...
by dean 4/27/2011 4:38:51 PM

@dean They need to make this more efficient. But in the whole time they've been doing this, the full system is not set up. Where in business could you have a situation where the whole supply and disposal system is not set up? This is the only one I know of.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:39:01 PM

time for me to push off and zip home... be back later
by dean 4/27/2011 4:40:15 PM

@Peter Melzer I agree i still don't know what the gauge says???? (still think ist a libary of an old closed plant... that gauge doesn't show anyting!!! @dean are the gages liquid filled at you plant (the mechanical ones...)
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:40:22 PM

@dean see you later.... still no elect... three days and counting
by fitter 4/27/2011 4:41:16 PM

@e123 It's in my notes somewhere. See if I can find it..well I know the total in all pools is over 2200 metric tons and somewhere around 1800-1900 is in the common pool.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:42:06 PM

But lemme check..
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:43:24 PM

i think that in 4 pool atleast i heared it was like 8 or 20 reactors worth.
by e123 4/27/2011 4:43:57 PM

2592 assemblies still in the reactors at Daiichi, added to the 10,149 in storage that's 12741 total, x 170kg per, it's 2166 metric tons onsite at Daiichi. Tepco didn't break it down by pool.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:49:11 PM

thanks jim
by e123 4/27/2011 4:49:43 PM

In Le Monde about the liability of the french nuclear operator in case of nuclear accident in France: google translate:http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fidees%2Farticle%2F2011%2F04%2F26%2Fnationaliser-edf_1513005_3232.html&act=url in french: www.lemonde.fr
by Olivier 4/27/2011 4:49:55 PM

And there was like 200 tons in the chernobly reactor i belive.
by e123 4/27/2011 4:51:05 PM

@e123 - 70 tonnes.
by Lethbridgean 4/27/2011 4:51:49 PM

is that all blooming heck.
by e123 4/27/2011 4:52:19 PM

@e123 Yeah that was a monster, normally there's about 100 tonnes in an average reactor. Somewhat more with the newer ones.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 4:53:11 PM

@e123 - yes, there is 10x more at this plant if you don't count the common spent cooling pool.
by Lethbridgean 4/27/2011 4:53:49 PM

I'm seeing 250tons in the #4 spent fuel i.livescience.com
by mexico_lurker 4/27/2011 4:55:07 PM

@all. There is also some equipment in #4 SFP. They put the steam dryer and some pipes in there because they would have been radioactive. This was in a report on the maintenance work or a press release. I am trying to track it back down. This extra "stuff" in the SFP adds to the weight and complicates things. They also only mention how high above the rod racks the water is. Never mention if the gear on top gets uncovered and is exposed to air.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 4:57:26 PM

@all Is it surprising that they have so much spent fuel at Fukushima as compared to Chernobyl? Chernobyl accident happened 25 years ago. There is no safe place anywhere in the world to keep spent fuel (the very first safe spent nuclear fuel depository will be built in Sweden). They have to keep it somewhere.
by Pedro Jesus 4/27/2011 4:58:04 PM