Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1149

An article on the cozy relationship between Tepco and GoJ, by a nuke consultant who lived and worked there. But to get back to the issue of the "cozy" relationships between the regulators and regulated in Japan, I would first point out that the kinds of relationships that are being criticized are not unique to the nuclear power sector in Japan. In fact, the same kinds of relationships exist in many industrial/commercial sectors in Japan. Furthermore, they do not exist for nefarious reasons. That is, no industry in Japan deliberately set out to create a system to insulate itself from criticism. Rather, the kinds of relationships that exist today are a consequence of a military style "up or out" personnel system and an inadequate pension system that results in people in their early to mid-50s being retired from their agencies without a sufficient pension income.
nukepowertalk.blogspot.com
by marie rich 5/13/2011 5:38:16 PM

@DonnerT : no. i think it is in a state in between (chugging).
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:38:45 PM

@Edano Yes, I assume that's where you and Donner are going with this line of inquiry. I'm an interested observer :)
by marie rich 5/13/2011 5:39:03 PM

some hints are here : en.wikipedia.org
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:40:36 PM

Why and how Fuku could change U.S. Nuclear energy policy. blogs.wsj.com
by marie rich 5/13/2011 5:41:23 PM

@Edano - I fully agree with the your "chugging" statement. I think it has been doing this since the initial scram.
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 5:42:25 PM

@Edano: Just thinking in public. How much dry glass batch material (Bentonite clay, silica, lime, with boron, barium and other assorted nuclear poisons) would it take to dilute the corium to inactive glass?
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 5:42:37 PM

Just scanning news. One mention on the www.huffingtonpost.com main page, in a sidebar column. Bo's in it.
by radioguy 5/13/2011 5:42:49 PM

@DonnerT : how do you plan to get it into or even near the corium ??
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:43:47 PM

@Edano - "Hot tapping" the pipes?? An old oilfield technique en.wikipedia.org
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 5:46:34 PM

Blog notes just posted 10 min. ago on the NEI's Nuclear Energy Assembly neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko expressed the continued confidence of his agency in the safety of U.S. nuclear energy facilities.

“The commission remains confident in the programs of the NRC and in the safety of the nation’s nuclear power plants,” he said, noting that in 2010 “there were no statistically significant adverse trends in industry performance.”

Still, Jaczko warned the gathered nuclear energy executives against complacency. He noted an increase in the number of automatic reactor shutdowns and significant reactor events in 2010 compared to 2009.
by marie rich 5/13/2011 5:46:40 PM

we can assume that part of the corium is in the containment.
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:46:50 PM

@Edano: Dry glass batch flows like water. It can be pumped trough pipes like water. Once in the reactor the core heat will melt it and become homogonized until the neutron emitters are isolated enough to kill reactivity and cool enough to solidify.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 5:52:00 PM

"The molten reactor core accumulated in the room 305/2, until it reached the edges of the steam relief valves; then it migrated downward to the Steam Distribution Corridor. It also broke or burned through into the room 304/3.[31] The corium flowed from the reactor in three streams. Stream 1 was composed of brown lava and molten steel; steel formed a layer on the floor of the Steam Distribution Corridor, on the Level +6, with brown corium on its top. From this area, brown corium flowed through the Steam Distribution Channels into the Pressure Suppression Pools on the Level +3 and Level 0, forming porous and slag-like formations there. Stream 2 was composed of black lava, and entered the other side of the Steam Distribution Corridor. Stream 3, also composed of black lavas, flown to other areas under the reactor. The well-known "Elephant's Foot" structure is composed of two metric tons of black lava,[18] forming a multilayered structure similar to tree bark. It is said to be melted 2 meters deep into the concrete. As the material was dangerously radioactive and hard and strong, and using remote controlled systems was not possible due to high radiation interfering with electronics,[35] shooting at it from an AK-47 was used to split off chunks for analysis." [chernobyl] nasty
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:53:18 PM

@Lethbridgean: I think the putzmeisters could pump it dry.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 5:53:31 PM

Don Lukey vs. Helen Caldicott: Low Dose Radiation Effects ansnuclearcafe.org Unsafe At Any Dose, by Helen Caldicott www.nytimes.com Two opposing views for your consideration
by marie rich 5/13/2011 5:54:24 PM

@DonnerT - and hot tapping gets it into the containment.
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 5:54:34 PM

@Lethbridgean @DonnerT : so what do we need ? let's pack and go.
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:55:52 PM

like bruce willis in "armageddon". let's save the world.
by Edano 5/13/2011 5:56:55 PM

@Lethbridgean @Edano: Now the question is how mutch "Batch" would it take to dilute to inativity.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 5:56:56 PM

@Edano - we need co-operation between different industry's AND skill sets AND nations.
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 5:57:53 PM

How long did the GoJ keep the putzmeisters on the "tarmac"? The robots too?? Seems like cultural pride and Industry co-operation and international leadership is a bigger hurdle then the techical hurdle.
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 6:03:21 PM

@Edano: I'm ready. The materials are readily available in any fiberglass plant and the pumpers are already there. If no fiberglass plant in japan there are Owenscorning plants in China and South Korea.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:03:54 PM

@Edano: You think I'm too far outside the box? :-(
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:06:07 PM

@DonnerT : ;) no. it just needs fiberglass and afterwards bury it under concrete. we know that tepco reads this blog, so i assume, they will make a plan based on our ideas.
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:07:53 PM

@Edano Though they do come up with bath salts and stuff too.
by radioguy 5/13/2011 6:08:27 PM

@radioguy : somewhere i read today they plan to fill the containment with zeolithe. :)))
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:09:35 PM

@Edano I saw that too. @DonnerT Would there be ignition issues with the fiberglass?
by radioguy 5/13/2011 6:10:03 PM

i guess the putzmeisters are ruined after the fiberglass thing.
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:10:31 PM

@Edano LOL...they needed quarantine anyway.
by radioguy 5/13/2011 6:10:57 PM

@Edano - I think they should send in the executives to be the foreman and aged pro-nuke/Oil industry baby boomers to give back to humanity what they honorably need to. God might let them in the pearly gates then...
by Lethbridgean 5/13/2011 6:11:07 PM

@radioguy: No ignition issues that I'm aware of. Tthough there would be some out gassing I don't think emissions would be near what has already been experienced. With a tent over it they could be contained.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:13:12 PM

The issue very quickly becomes max-dosed experts. Then you still need workers to do critical hands-on things near the reactors, knowing you max them for life in 20 minutes.
by radioguy 5/13/2011 6:13:19 PM

20 m³ is half a swimming pool.
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:13:36 PM

@Edano In the vessel?
by radioguy 5/13/2011 6:14:10 PM

there is a doc here 'explaining ' how they calculate internal exposure . I got to it from tweets which are claiming that the method is flawed and also that it is being applied to children when it shouldnt be.
I am not techi enough but thought others may be interested
translate.google.com
by elainekirk 5/13/2011 6:15:26 PM

@radioguy : ~20m³ corium
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:17:17 PM

the vessel has 340 m³
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:18:17 PM

@Edano: No damage to the Putzers. Like pumping concrete.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:18:46 PM

@you: Don't pump fiberglass just the dry materials that are melted to make it.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:20:58 PM

@DonnerT : how does that work ?
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:21:32 PM

Looks like #3 is still putting out steam down low, just to the bottom left of the center vent tower (TBS cam)
by wtm 5/13/2011 6:22:58 PM

@Edano: The Putzers are piston pumpers. Pistons and cylinder sleeves are replaced regularly.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:23:56 PM

@DonnerT : i mean the fiberglass. does it need heat or pressure to react or anything ?
by Edano 5/13/2011 6:25:16 PM

@Edano: Just heat. If the core is molten it surely must be above 2000degF. Batch melts at that temperature and it doesn't expand 1600 times like water.
by DonnerT 5/13/2011 6:28:14 PM