Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1189

There is a heavy green crane sitting right above the SFP in #4. That has got to be a lot of weight in that end of what is left of the building.
by wtm 5/15/2011 2:10:12 PM

@wtm, please refresh my memory, is it still hanging above the SFP or has it a
lready dropped ?
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:11:22 PM

@WolfDK, but they are getting a whole lot of medium ones, that is tearing it apart. The crane or re-fueling machine sits on a track on the floor above the SFP, and is parked in that end of the building. I don't know where the big overhead crane is at, it is on a track above on the top of the building, which is gone now, don't know where it fell, might be down the other end.
by wtm 5/15/2011 2:15:00 PM

@WolfDK That crane is still in place. You can see it on the photos. Vid shows contents of the pool generally in order too. Which is why the explosion(s) in 4 are such a mystery
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:15:58 PM

@UKVal & @wtm, thanks
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:17:07 PM

@UKVal, the explosions are from hydrogen that accumulated within the building, and blew the roof off.
by wtm 5/15/2011 2:17:38 PM

So we are looking at a potential refueling crane drop into the SFP ?
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:18:12 PM

@wtm true, but something happened at ground level too -you can see this on some of the pics
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:18:36 PM

@UKVal something I noticed last week was that 4 had evidence of blast at the ground level. The concrete garage stall had all the wall panels blow out. So a considerable blast exited on the ground floor via that connected garage. Fitter has wondered about the construction work going on may have contributed to the explosion. I have to wonder if the pool was hot enough to generate the hydrogen but something else kicked off the explosion.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:19:45 PM

@Nancy agreed. I think fitter was on the right track. Something to do with the shroud work maybe? @wtm also how come the SFP looks so undisturbed?
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:20:45 PM

@WolfDK The refueling crane sits on the work deck and rolls back and forth. The big overhead crane runs in a track that is part of those upper walls. It could easily fall down onto the deck.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:21:00 PM

@Peter Melzer thanks. I am not sure about Japan's PMs. I know the US basically reinstalled the wartime elite to power here, believing that this was the route to stability. It may be that they didn't trust people as foreign as the Japanese compared to the Germans where they could identify with those who opposed the elite. But thanks so much for the engaged discussion.
by bo 5/15/2011 2:21:37 PM

The refueling crane can't fall into the SFP, but it is a lot of weight on that side of the structure above the SFP.
by wtm 5/15/2011 2:22:06 PM

@UKVal Fitter mentioned welding tanks that would be located far away from any actual welding for safety reasons, he was working on more info to see if it would be a factor. They used an automated welding machine to install the shroud. There could be lots of other factors going on.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:22:14 PM

@Nancy There was speculation that the 3,362 liters of petroleum solvents stored in #4 kicked off the explosion or contributed to it.
by Bobby1 5/15/2011 2:22:23 PM

@Bobby1 really? First I have heard. Can you back track and find the source where you read that? It is significant.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:23:12 PM

Reposted from earlier. A screen capture from about 5 pm Japan time.
by bo 5/15/2011 2:24:11 PM

XinhWua is reporting that a TEPCO employee is claiming there was damage at 1 that caused the meltdown, not solely the tsunami and power loss. I have heard this repeated more and more. If you find more details from this source make sure we all find out about it, esp. Dean. news.xinhuanet.com
by Nancy edited by Angie 5/15/2011 2:25:05 PM

@Nancy I watched a Doco tonight on the quake and the footage was unreal! 5mins they said the quake lasted for so what they are saying in the article could very well be true.
by Angie 5/15/2011 2:30:55 PM

Nancy - you saw the Kyodo news advisory about meltdown in #1 11 hours after quake? -posted earlier today
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:32:35 PM

Look at the current TBS/JNN cam and the image bo posted, looks to me like the entire front row of the worst damaged side have fallen
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:33:21 PM

Only the first column of that wall (corner pointing towards cam) seem to still be there
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:35:41 PM

@UKVal went back 6 pages and didn't see the kyodo link
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:36:11 PM

@Nancy - no link - it was in the 'breaking news' banner then removed but later put back. Kyodo reported source as TEPCO. Haven't found anything more yet
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:37:22 PM

Meltdown occurred at Fukushima No. 1 reactor 16 hrs after March 11 quake

TOKYO, May 15, Kyodo

A nuclear fuel meltdown at the No. 1 reactor of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi power plant is believed to have occurred around 16 hours after the March 11 quake and tsunami crippled the complex in northeastern Japan, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Sunday.
english.kyodonews.jp
by Angie 5/15/2011 2:38:26 PM

@Angie A couple of things lead back to that idea that damage was done via the quake. Edano's theory that there was lateral movement of the RPV, I can find no evidence of the RPV having any sort of lateral dampening. Dean is working on forensics of the plant systems and is finding things that likely failed not due to the tsunami induced power loss alone. There is no real damage to the reactor building alone from the tsunami. The turbine buildings and the electrical took most of the damage. The RPV and other systems seem to have been damaged before the explosions.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:39:20 PM

@Angie Thanks!
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:39:42 PM

Does anyone see the same ?
by WolfDK 5/15/2011 2:40:32 PM

@Nancy also nuclear diver who thought the backwash before the tsunami caused damage
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:41:36 PM

@WolfDK I'm not sure
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:42:28 PM

Well the footage I saw tonight I had never seen before It was a doco on the discovery channel and it shaking was so violent! It would be hard to imagine that it didnt do any damage to the plant. Infact a Usa worker working at the plant said he saw a massive crack in one of the reactors concret buildings before they were evacuated and before the Wave came.
by Angie 5/15/2011 2:42:34 PM

@Nancy , that is why it is important to find out whether any radiation of note was released right after the quake. Tepco states their monitors did not indicate any release. But who knows for sure?
by Peter Melzer 5/15/2011 2:42:41 PM

@Angie that is the kind of info I have been looking for. The american that was interviewed, so far I have only seen comments from him that things were shaking violently and total chaos. Can you find the source for that?
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:44:35 PM

@Angie aha! so that's the source for the 'vertical crack in the containment'
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:45:06 PM

@Peter Melzer 'Data taken by workers entering the No. 1 reactor building at the crippled plant on the night of March 11 showing the radiation level was as high as 300 millisieverts per hour suggest a large amount of radioactive materials from nuclear fuel in the reactor was already released'. news.xinhuanet.com
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:46:42 PM

@Nancy I haven't found the petroleum solvents link, it was from a couple nights ago. But here is another #4 explosion link (Japanese): www.asahi.com "Unit 4 explosion, caused by regurgitation or TEPCO estimates of Unit 3 of hydrogen gas", Tepco says #4 exploded from backup of hydrogen from #3, they used a common exhaust... I wonder if this contributed to the #2 explosion which occurred less than 10 minutes later.
by Bobby1 5/15/2011 2:47:37 PM

@Bobby1 , good reminder! We must not forget about that solvent. It is quite a bit of stuff. Anyone knows where that was stored in the building?
by Peter Melzer 5/15/2011 2:48:01 PM

The doco was called the hour that shook Japan. Then the one straight after was called emergency in Fuckushima. I will see if they are on youtube.
by Angie 5/15/2011 2:48:24 PM

I don't know what the deal with the solvents is. This is the first I have heard. Was it to do with the maintenance? Elaine also thought she found mention of a tunnel that connected the 2 plant for workers to move between. This would give an avenue for gasses to move. From the early images I am working with right now the exhaust stacks were intact on the outside of the building before the blasts, inside I don't know but guess they may have been compromised.
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:50:17 PM

@Bobby1 ack that Asahi link was 404, can you check the link?
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:50:47 PM

Oop sorry the Xinhua link was 404
by Nancy 5/15/2011 2:51:04 PM

@UKVal , the point is when. If the release happened right after the quake, it may suggest design weakness with immediate consequences for all reactors of this type, not only those built in tsunami-prone areas.
by Peter Melzer 5/15/2011 2:51:49 PM

Ok this is part one. I am not sure where in here he spoke about it. The rest of the doco is on there as well
by Angie 5/15/2011 2:52:01 PM

@Nancy news.xinhuanet.com try this
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:55:48 PM

@Peter Melzer I'm sure you're right, but the timescale betweeen the quake & the tsunami was so short that it may be impossible to know what happened when
by UKVal 5/15/2011 2:57:51 PM