Japan Earthquake | Page 1491

  • @Edano It isn't only in Germany, seems to be spreading the E.coli 2100 infected.http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?edis=EP-20110525-30873-MLC
    by Veenie 6/3/2011 10:39:30 PM

  • Is that right? I thought Chernobyl was 1.8 Million terabequrals and Fukushima is way under that still.
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:40:46 PM

  • 1,800,000,000,000,000,000 vs 500,000,000,000,000 from fukushima, 1.8 Million vs 500,000
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:44:17 PM

  • Why any plans for long term storage of radioctive water under or above ground is being allowed is beond comprehension they must invest in scrubbing equipment . The next quake will disperse the lot of it......Ah yes that their thinking I suppose
    'we sincerely apologise'
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 10:44:18 PM

  • @Ralph Unger 630,000 TBq de.wikipedia.org but i read 70,000 and 105,000 in other sources.
    by Edano 6/3/2011 10:45:43 PM

  • not calculated is the airborne radiation.
    by Edano 6/3/2011 10:47:05 PM

  • Blinkin comparisons again cripes ! different geography , different population density's, different weather conditions the only bloody similarity is that radiation was involved .
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 10:51:20 PM

  • That is only I-131 which is important as it decays quickly so it can do damage quickly. But there is no red forest around Fukushima which means it ha big problems, but not like Chernobyl.
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:51:38 PM

  • and who is measuring fuku's pollution ?....ah yes tepco... 'we sincerely apologize but we missed a few 0's'
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 10:54:31 PM

  • TEPCO says safety measures, such as wearing protective clothing and masks, may have been inadequate just after the accident. It says it wants to conduct detailed tests on about 150 workers who were involved in similar operations.

    Friday, June 03, 2011 20:16 +0900 (JST)
    www3.nhk.or.jp


    Good grief.
    by Rob in SF 6/3/2011 10:55:10 PM

  • 2 months to figure out that first responders and employees needed testing? TEPCO is a joke, so is IsA and MEXT.
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:56:56 PM

  • NISA...
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:57:22 PM

  • Cellphones are now known carcinogens, I want them banned from public places just like cigarettes.
    by Ralph Unger 6/3/2011 10:59:52 PM

  • More findings in my quest on hardened vents (listen up Elaine)! The National Geographic Daily News published an informative article by Josie Garthwaite with the title "Would a New Nuclear Plant Fare Better than Fukushima?" online on Mar. 23, 2011 ( news.nationalgeographic.com ), which tells us about recent developments in nuclear reactor design to improve the ability of preventing a fuel core meltdown after a LOCA. The author interviewed Adrian Heymer, executive director of strategic programs for the the Nuclear Energy Institute, a U.S. industry trade group. I quote from the article:
    “For example, all boiling-water reactors in the United States that use a similar design to the Fukushima Daiichi reactors have been outfitted since the 1990s with what's called a hardened vent, said Heymer. This allows the reactor to vent steam and pressure "straight to the atmosphere," with a filter intended to remove radioactivity. In older designs, the vent ran from the reactor and into the reactor building, where hydrogen can build up.
    At this point, the NEI has "struggled" to get a firm answer from Japanese officials about whether the troubled Fukushima reactors have hardened vents, Heymer said. "They have so many things going on, they may not be able to get information out to us." But explosions at four of the Fukishima's six reactors indicate that hydrogen did in fact build up in the reactor buildings, he said.” In harmony, asahi reports in a post with the title "No. 1 blast, causing regurgitation of the hydrogen exhaust TEPCO or 'design flaws' " published online Jun. 4, 2011 (Elaine's find: www.asahi.com ), that the hydrogen accumulation that destroyed the building of reactor 1 on Mar. 14 originated from backflow in the exhaust hardened vent piping passing through a faulty valve into the building. We must conclude that the retrofit of reactor 1 with a hardened vent was deeply flawed.
    by Peter Melzer 6/3/2011 11:07:35 PM

  • @peter what a great article and nat geo too that has good credibility lets see if the publicity they will gather from the article results in some real information
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 11:20:45 PM

  • this is unit #1 refit and it makes no mention of any changes to the vent system docs.google.com
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 11:26:51 PM

  • Check TEPPY cam, unit #4 lots of smoke/steam !!!!!
    by wtm 6/3/2011 11:30:25 PM

  • It didn't look like fog, it was centered around unit #4, and then has spread.
    by wtm 6/3/2011 11:35:01 PM

  • Hi guys, thanks for all the links and comments. I had a question late yesterday that, it was suggested, I ask earlier on in the day when you are all up (It was late) :-) so here goes... I am trying to understand better what people are talking about when they speak of the "water table" and "seeping into the groundwater." Why is this such a problem? Does the radiation actually travel along with the water to other areas where it ends up in our water faucets? Isn't water purified before reaching humans? etc. I'm just not sure I understand the full connect-the-dots cycle from leaving the nuclear containment til it reaches your faucet. Maybe someone can clarify the risk.
    by Darren 6/3/2011 11:36:47 PM

  • Hi @Darren @edano says the groundwater at fuku daiichi runs to the ocean and not into the fresh water supply, he will be able to tell you more when he comes on but at the moment the only way of radiation getting into your drinking water is airborne , rain etc, Still a risk and you need o ask people here where you can find the readings for your local drinking supply that are published
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 11:42:11 PM

  • @elainekirk thanks :-) So is the major current risk, then, the collapse of Unit 4's spent fuel pool, the steam carrying radiation into the air and also the seeping of radioactivity into the sea?
    by Darren 6/3/2011 11:43:27 PM

  • @darren that sounds about it :) whereabout are you?
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 11:45:16 PM

  • San Francisco. Not "worried" here - just learning. I'm a network engineer, but an engineer none the less, so I like to learn about engineering problems. It's all logic & problem solving IMHO at the end of the day.
    by Darren 6/3/2011 11:46:18 PM

  • Evening all. Interesting Darrien. I like to think of things that way too.
    by carabnr 6/3/2011 11:49:42 PM

  • @darren oh goody I just found this paper docs.google.com you will probably understand more than me I am thinking venting systems did you see peters post about #1
    by elainekirk 6/3/2011 11:49:53 PM

  • @elainekirk , I see a criminal investigation gradually taking shape: Tepco already conceded that design flaws may have contributed to the damage to the reactors by the quake the strength of which at Fukushima, they say, was within the scope of design parameters. The story below seems to show that the company was negligent in retrofitting the hardened vents properly. Furthermore, misinformed simulations on LOCA recovery provided a faulty sense of security which may have led to the next misstep, in which an operator following flawed guidelines disengaged the ECCS of reactor 1, precipitating the meltdown of its core. Perhaps the headman of the company at the time should go to jail!
    by Peter Melzer 6/3/2011 11:59:55 PM

  • @peter I am so sure that fuku if it had been properly adapted as safety issues globally with bwr were found and remedied, would not have had flat roofs I am certain they should have had a raised section lengthways also the vent pipes should have not been straight these facts have been known since before they did the refits starting in 98 sh should have been included otherwise as you say they didnt do it so are criminally negligent
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:04:17 AM

  • @elainekirk , you may be surprised. I saw those flat impact-friendly roofs on pics of plants in the US. So much for homeland security and the terrorist attack hype.
    by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 12:11:50 AM

  • @peter it is hype that post about the uk having a perfectly competent policer resign suddenly to be replaced by an army bod, I am not saying there is no risk but I do think there is a lot of fearmongering being used to giv the public the impression that they are at grave risk and need to fund these policers who seem to not protect but to erode the freedoms of the innocent the airport scanners being a prime example.
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:16:05 AM

  • Social engineering springs to mind , we wont dictate we will merely cow you into obedience
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:16:51 AM

  • It was said by a publication yesterday that Japan couldnt be held to accept international involvement because they werent signed up to any international agreements but here it shows then as full members of the OECD NEA docs.google.com(98)20%26docLanguage%3DEn+japan+bwr+vents+hydrogen&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShTN26KaPQ8nuDQpNGEZRIpASWo5jGBnltlJokx_i33k5NzRacqlXOIqPLaD8W4AgMqwVREbyWL9dfa8Q8sxBU-qI2fisZa9kWWt44S1olzhEdFlUDjQQrQDPh3QT9Adm3II892&sig=AHIEtbT_st3cle1p0DqB8_B2gEhEhRySyg
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:21:43 AM

  • @elainekirk , raising fear and pandering to patriotism co-opt citizens into tolerating policies they would never approve otherwise.
    by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 12:21:47 AM

  • @peter so glad you said that I was worried that I sounded a bit loopy
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:22:34 AM

  • @elainekirk , one of the deepest arguments against nuclear power in West Germany at the time was not that the technology was flawed and would inevitably lead into disaster. Rather, it was the angst of the Atomstaat. That is, the security needs of nuclear installations would infringe upon and curb the freedoms of the common (wo)man in ways that nobody wished for
    .
    by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 12:27:46 AM

  • @peter Ah now that is interesting !
    to your earlier flat roof comment
    Somerisk factors requiring attention have been identified, such as protection against hydrogendetonation in small containments. However, expensive backfits of such things as core catchersand filtered containment vents have been determined to be unnecessary in US plants
    webcache.googleusercontent.com
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:29:15 AM

  • @peter I am quite blown away by that info about Germany it is a very good argument
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:30:40 AM

  • Atomstaat reflects the fear of the political-industrial-complex.
    by Edano 6/4/2011 12:38:54 AM

  • @edano good evening
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:39:46 AM

  • @elainekirk hihi
    by Edano 6/4/2011 12:40:01 AM

  • @edano have you seen the #1 article peter posted?
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:41:17 AM

  • @elainekirk , I find the source. I was reading that some plant (in South Carolina?) was exempted of installing a scrubber for the hardened vent because of excessive cost.
    by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 12:41:56 AM

  • we germans also refuse nuclear weapons for the same reasons, though the americans still have some nuke heads in germany.
    by Edano 6/4/2011 12:43:17 AM

  • @edano @peter it is interesting that the only country that seems to have acted on public opinion did so on an argument so totally different to the norm
    by elainekirk 6/4/2011 12:45:18 AM

  • @elainekirk today the german government reached a definitive agreement with the red-green opposition on the abolishing of nuke power. it will take part in 5 shutdown steps: 2015, 2017, 2019, 2021 and 2022. the dates and the reactors are fixed now.
    by Edano 6/4/2011 12:48:58 AM

  • @elainekirk , it is history that teaches this. The insight about the ease with which you can manipulate public opinion did not flow from my brain. The guy who came up with this wisdom was no other than HERMANN GOERING.
    by Peter Melzer 6/4/2011 12:52:04 AM

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