Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1642

hitech + mediocracy => disaster
by Edano 6/15/2011 8:26:52 PM

@RBeaner yep, how someone thought this was ok for years is frustrating.
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:26:56 PM

@lillymunster But that was the solution 18 yrs ago (1993), and with renewed liscense, it will be the same solution till (IIRC) 2033 now. Do they get a volume discount on sandbags?
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 8:28:50 PM

@all.. after the chernobyl accident many nuc regulators were suggesting.. get big sand piles just in case... I was asked by one.. what do you do if a BOING 747 directly hits your building? I told him I would call the FAA and tell them they have a small problem and wondered if they lost a boeing 747 off their radar,, cuz I found it... .DUH.. then he said. where are your sand piles to use to toss on the reactor core...

by dean 6/15/2011 8:29:04 PM

again, a little too late ?

Govt. releases radiation readings at 1-meter-high

Japan's science ministry has started releasing readings of radiation levels across the country measured at the same height -- one meter from the ground.

Since a series of accidents at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in March, the ministry has been making daily announcements of radiation levels.

But the height of monitoring posts has varied according to prefecture, ranging from 1.5 to 80 meters above ground. People have been calling for radiation levels to be measured at the same height -- one meter from the ground -- so data can be checked at a height close to human activity.

The science ministry has decided to measure radiation levels at a height of one meter nationwide with a portable radiation detector.

On Tuesday, the ministry started releasing such data in 35 out of the country's 47 prefectures.

It said radiation levels measured at a height of one meter on Monday in some prefectures, including Yamagata and Tochigi, were more than twice as high as those recorded at the monitoring posts.

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 21:24 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/15/2011 8:30:33 PM

@lilly.. I want to know where they are getting pristine water to cool the Calhoun SFP....
by dean 6/15/2011 8:30:47 PM

@Mona That was the smoke/steam show 2 nights ago. I think they're having trouble keeping the pools from heating up too much.
by LM 6/15/2011 8:31:38 PM

Kan wants early passage of natural energy bill

Prime Minister Naoto Kan says he wants the current Diet session to enact a bill that would allow power firms to buy electricity generated from natural energy sources.

On Tuesday evening, Kan met a non-partisan group of 9 Diet members who are campaigning for a shift in Japan's energy policy.

They handed over the signatures of more than 200 lawmakers who are seeking the passage of the bill that was submitted to the Lower House in April.

Kan said business circles are cautious about the legislation as they think it could lead to higher electricity charges.

But he added that such an argument is baseless as the cost of generating electricity will decline with the increased use of solar energy and other natural resources.

The prime minister also said that it is crucial to increase the share of natural energy in power generation.

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 00:26 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/15/2011 8:34:56 PM

@Dean I was curious yesterday...I've noticed more grey smoke in the last 4 days or so. Can zircaloy cladding that gets too hot give off grey smoke without going up into flames and before being quenched again?
by LM 6/15/2011 8:35:13 PM

@dean Siphons and kittylitter?
by radioguy 6/15/2011 8:36:23 PM

@Edano,,, Kan smoking sea weed again.. on electric costs
by dean 6/15/2011 8:37:05 PM

@dean ?? Good point. That river water is probably pretty nasty. Does it impact the river water side of the cooling loop that much? Would the flooding mess up the ability to move that side of the water in and out?
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:37:11 PM

lol radioguy
by dean 6/15/2011 8:37:57 PM

@RBeaner NRC made them actually buy sandbags last year. They didn't even have sandbag bags bought or a contractor to bring in sand lined up.
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:38:14 PM

One thing to remember, as the summer heats up, which it is and will continue to do, ambient temperature is going to be 10-15C higher, which means they're going to have to compensate for the loss of atmospheric cooling as well.
by radioguy 6/15/2011 8:39:21 PM

@dean i agree, the electrical costs will not decline until the last nuke has vanished and everything is deradiated.
by Edano 6/15/2011 8:39:24 PM

@Lilly...now that's pathetic..a plant sitting in a 100 year flood plain with no sandbags.
by LM 6/15/2011 8:39:30 PM

@LM 100 year and 500 year flood plains are a complete joke. As Grand Forks and Fargo.
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:40:08 PM

We have been getting 100 and 500 year flood waters up here every couple of years
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:40:37 PM

That comment was about Fukushima, but we're on shakey ground (eeep) on our own sodden soil as well.
by radioguy 6/15/2011 8:40:40 PM

@Lilly True enough...has applied for a while huh!
by LM 6/15/2011 8:40:52 PM

@Lilly hasn't..darn iPad!
by LM 6/15/2011 8:41:16 PM

@lilly, the reactor needs makeup water, various systems need make up water, the spent fuel pool needs makeup water all of which has to be nuclear grade water and if it's not for instance in the SFP and they have to resort to other means of water... THERE GOES THE CHEMISTRY and most likely the fuel elements stored there,, it would be a whole huge effort to requalify that fuel to ever be used again..
by dean 6/15/2011 8:41:20 PM

@dean how do they normally get make up water? What do they use?
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:41:58 PM

I read somewhere where they had some water.. but I didn't hear anything about and extended supply
by dean 6/15/2011 8:42:04 PM

@LM ok. Thank you. @Bobby1 If you're here, good work on that radioation in US! I wish Nilu or that other, ZAWG, who made these, could say something now about what they think about it, after Japan admitting meltdowns and meltthroughs.
by Mona 6/15/2011 8:42:14 PM

@dean They don't need clean water, it's secondary and they have (i believe) sieves that get bigger crap out.
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 8:43:12 PM

@dean can they product make up water on site via tap water or something or does it have to be made and shipped in? I don't know the process or water quality they need.
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:43:20 PM

they either drill wells @ lilly and then treat the water and get it in the same chemistry as in the reactor then use it for makeup in the reactor and sfp BECAUSE both chemistries need to be the same... or... they pull it out of the river and run it through the treatment system... flood water would be definately high in solids and muck
by dean 6/15/2011 8:43:28 PM

One thing is for sure, with all that extra heat-evaporated water, weather in the US is going to be a free-for-all this summer
by radioguy 6/15/2011 8:43:35 PM

RBeaner I am refering to the makeup water not the cooling water which can be the river water
by dean 6/15/2011 8:43:52 PM

depending on how much debris comes down the river it could be possible to plug the intake screens where the plant takes on river water also
by dean 6/15/2011 8:45:23 PM

River water would be absolutely nasty right now. The level of agitation and some of it is already going out of the banks. The missouri is muddy and nasty on a good day. I have not seen anything mentioned about wells or rural water supply in their preparedness PR
by lillymunster 6/15/2011 8:45:25 PM

if Calhoun has to resort to putting river water in for makeup purposes they are compared to fukushima putting sea water in.. GOOD BYE plant,,
by dean 6/15/2011 8:46:37 PM

@radioguy " as the summer heats up, which it is and will continue to do, ambient temperature is going to be 10-15C higher, which means they're going to have to compensate for the loss of atmospheric cooling ".. I could be entirely wrong but I think the cooling towers work through evaporation and the exchangers just echange heat based on flow rate,.. I don't think outside temp is an issue.....Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 8:48:06 PM

ANYONE COLLECT STAMPS
by dean 6/15/2011 8:51:47 PM

@RBeaner radioguy is right.
by Edano 6/15/2011 8:54:05 PM

Evaporation sucks when the air is already loaded with water, and the fact is still that the ambient temp of everything if left uncooled will change from say 70F to 95F. That's an extra load on every cooling system in the plant, not only the nuclear ones.
by radioguy 6/15/2011 8:54:15 PM

RBeaner typically coastal areas don't have cooling towers but inland areas do.. the cooling water is pumped up and trickles down the cooling tower and air is pulled up through the bottom and the heat is transfered
by dean 6/15/2011 8:54:22 PM

they have to make up water to the seconday system to compensate for that evaporated through the tower.. 1000's of gallons per minute
by dean 6/15/2011 8:55:03 PM

@MaryW Have you gotten any answers to your origional information requests?
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 8:55:38 PM

not sure what the delta temperature is but probably alot because they heat the water prior to going back into the reactor once it passes through the heat exchanger..
by dean 6/15/2011 8:56:09 PM

@Edano Like I said, I'm not stuck on it, but it seems evaporation takes away the most heat, and that occurs at higher temps..?
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 8:58:23 PM

en.wikipedia.org some info on reactor cooling towers
by dean 6/15/2011 9:00:31 PM

@radioguy OK, my "small mind" has processed it and realized that a high temp (98.6) stream produces much more steam when it is cold outside, GCE has been repaired.
by RBeaner 6/15/2011 9:01:08 PM