Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1827

@Edano I don't know... I saw a pipe coming out of the #1 basement spewing out steam. There is something down there.
by Bobby1 7/4/2011 6:50:30 AM

@Bobby1 if so, this would be an immense design error, in my opion. you should build them strictly seperated for safety reasons, and they were in fact built in different years .......
by Edano 7/4/2011 6:52:18 AM

@Edano agreed... I suppose it could have been totally different things that led to the explosions at #2 and #4, and the proximity in time is a coincidence. But design errors seem to be all over the place.
by Bobby1 7/4/2011 6:55:32 AM

@Bobby1 yes, of course, everything seems possible. we will have to wait until times goes by. and the explosions in #2 and #4 are mysterious indeed ....
by Edano 7/4/2011 6:58:00 AM

@Edano, exactly! The U3-stack wisp means it at least reduced the volume of any gas that went the wrong way into U4. And why on earth would it also go pass the wrong way into U4? Surely the vents were designed to vent gasses out the stack, not into other buildings. If they were not designed to prevent venting into other building, Tepco should and would sue the manufacturer given how desperate Tepco must be to settle claims against itself.
by Ian 7/4/2011 7:00:24 AM

before #4 was built, the three units had their own stack each. and then it is not unlikely to assume that they just wanted to save money and reused #3 tower for #4. but why not use differernt stacks ? why in hell did they decide to connect them ?
by Edano 7/4/2011 7:05:12 AM

Right? And there's a stack south of Unit 4, you'd think that would be all U4 needed.
by Ian 7/4/2011 7:06:42 AM

@myself : probably because #3 tower was not designed to hold two seperated stacks. so this was kind of improvisation.
by Edano edited by Edano 7/4/2011 7:06:55 AM

Meant : Right!
by Ian 7/4/2011 7:07:01 AM

that should have been a pretty good indication to them that pipework was damaged
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 9:15:49 AM

@bo @ian are you around
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 9:50:03 AM

@elaine hi there, was away doing a lecture, but back in the saddle now
by bo 7/4/2011 9:53:59 AM

@bo vietnamese workers being brought in and paid poorly and not told danger of exceeding 250msv is this a credible scenario?
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 10:02:16 AM

@elainekirk potentially. Where did you hear that? One the one hand, exploitation of poorer Asian countries labor forces are traditional here. Lately it's been primarily Filipinos. But remember, the GoJ has a deal with Vietnam to buy nuke plants, or is it TEPCO? A back channel aspect of the deal may be to provide cheap labor. It's hard to discount anything at this point.
by bo 7/4/2011 10:04:32 AM

It is on twitter I am not sure whether they are talking the training of workers vietnam or japan
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 10:08:25 AM

What wouldn't you put past TEPCO? I'm jumping in the shower really quick (so humid here!!) be back in ten.
by bo 7/4/2011 10:09:09 AM

@bo happy cooling :)
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 10:11:27 AM

Phewwwwww!!!!!!
by bo 7/4/2011 10:27:19 AM

Much better.
by bo 7/4/2011 10:27:23 AM

@bo same here
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 11:13:08 AM

@bo out for a while lets hope some news leaks out it is rare to find absolutely nothing.
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 11:35:35 AM

It's nice.
by bo 7/4/2011 11:43:25 AM

www.tepco.co.jp
Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant Setting steel sheet at the 1st floor of the unit 3 reactor building
so until we get news we can peer at a pic of a lappy screen
I am on bbq duty so will try the phone option and sit in the garden:)
by elainekirk via Tepco.co.jp 7/4/2011 12:37:24 PM

blinkin eck if it is too contaminated to walk on that bit of steel isnt going to afford much protection from the airborne
by elainekirk 7/4/2011 12:38:35 PM

@elainekirk Hi. Is this the steel constructions that shall keep the reactor building from collapsing or is it other reasons? Are they also done putting up steel construktions now at nr 4 to support the building?
by Mona 7/4/2011 12:46:43 PM

@Bo I’,m sorry I offended you with my choice of quotation from Haruki Murakami’s speech. The speech was very moving. And he donated the prize money to the victims of the earthquake and the accident of the nuclear plants. I would appreciate your view on what he writes about the Japanese society, because you live there and know it from inside, and I only know Japan a little. www.senrinomichi.com
From what I understand, Murakami is one of Japans best writers. The Guardian placed him as one of the world's greatest living novelists.
by Mona 7/4/2011 12:46:51 PM

@Mona the Murakami quote didn't offend me at all! Sorry if I gave that impression. My cynical post soon after that was about the article my post linked to about the Responsible Seniors Corp. I haven't read Murakami but I know he is highly respected here and around the world. I very much valued the quote you put up and his wise words about how everything passes in time.
by bo 7/4/2011 12:54:30 PM

Nuclear Power: The Hidden Truth （“I want you to know what Nuclear Plant is”）- Norio Hirai
Let’s get one thing clear. I am not an anti-nuclear activist. For twenty years I worked in a nuclear power plant. So many people are debating whether or not nuclear power plant is right or wrong, safe or unsafe but I want explain what it is. Nuclear plants cause radiation sickness every day.

I hope that in reading this report to the end, people begin to have a better idea what nuclear power plant is all about.
My area of expertise is in laying pipelines for chemical manufacturing plants. In the early 1950’s, I was handpicked to work as a nuclear expert.
Since I was a site foreman for a long time, I know a lot about nuclear power plant but that would not be the case if I were merely a labourer.

Ever since 1969 when the Japanese decided to throw oil drums filled with radioactive waste into the sea, this was done normally without any thought.
When I was stationed in the Toukai Power Plant in Ibaragi, we used to transport these oil drums by truck, then ship and finally throw it into the sea of Chiba.

It was around this time that I began doubting the effectiveness of nuclear power. After a year, the oil drums thrown into sea started rusting. I thought to myself what will the waste do to the fish when that happens.
sites.google.com
by Mona 7/4/2011 1:08:36 PM

@Bo I'm glad to hear. Great :) It's easy to misinterprit for a not english native speaker when we in chats speak in such few words. ;) And since my post was taken away, I thought it was becaouse of what I wrote. Have a nice day. :)
by Mona 7/4/2011 1:13:17 PM

Morning! (or afternoon, or evening) :-)
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 1:16:57 PM

@Mona, the steel supports at #4 are just under the fuel pool to support the bottom of it. The construction of it depends on the outer wall and the containment bulb for support and the outer wall support is broken. They put posts between the bottom of the pool and the floor of the level below. So far no word of other fixes on 4.
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 1:19:27 PM

@Mona I just went back and read the Murakami post to be sure how it related to my later post, and it is still up. I don't think anyone would take such an informative post down for any reason!
by bo 7/4/2011 1:24:12 PM

Here's a theory as to why they're allowing the very-low water level in SFP4: perhaps they've allowed it to get so low in the off chance the additional weight of a topped-off SFP4 would send it crashing down on the men working to add support underneath it. Given that it needs the added support we might assume weight is a collapse-risk factor, in addition to weight + earthquakes.
by Ian 7/4/2011 1:24:44 PM

@lillymunster, if you tack back a few messages, Edano and I noticed what seems to be faint wisp of gas ejected from the Unit 3 stack about 1.7 seconds into the explosion. This could have happen the split second before the vent broke. And it seems that this reduces the likelihood of Tepco's gas-injection theory for the Unit 4 blast, for at the least this venting reduced the amount of gas that would go the wrong way into U4. And if any could exit the right way, why should any exit the wrong way?
by Ian 7/4/2011 1:33:48 PM

JNN live feed, new link: www.youtube.com
by Deb 7/4/2011 1:44:06 PM

@Ian What image did you see this in? Peter would know more about how these vents operate. If they are a simple butterfly valve or something more complex. But one would think if it only partially opened it would have blocked the rest rather than letting it flow into 4. Peter understands the venting systems much more than I do and was researching the venting system. Would be good to pick his brain.
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 1:44:09 PM

In this video about at 1:19 on the time code I added you can see a faint wisp of a white line emanate from the stack : www.youtube.com
by Ian 7/4/2011 2:00:37 PM

Do we know what the elements are in the EPA ranges for gamma or is this a federal secret that has to be pried from EPA with the freedom of information act? Albuquerque, NM June data: tsunamioftears.com
by Deb 7/4/2011 2:06:24 PM

@Deb There is a way to estimate what elements are there based on the signatures but it is way over my head how it is done. It is based on what is emitted (beta, gamma etc.). The box filter data if or when it is read we get some of that data but the EPA database shows more than the web site viewer does. I think EPA closed the ability to look at the raw database after someone found plutonium in CA. Bobby might know more.
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 2:13:19 PM

@Ian Is it out of the short building stack not the tower exhaust?
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 2:15:07 PM

What adds to the likelihood that this wisp is actually hydrogen gas is that it's timing is almost perfect with the top of the explosion plume, but just a bit slower, and it would have had to travel horizontally some distance first (if not also down to the level of the vent) before shooting up the stack, whereas the explosion plume only travels up. So if it was timed over the distance traveled, it's probably a perfect match to the leading edge of the explosion. And the odds that you'd some some other artifact producing this at the right spot right time is remote.
by Ian 7/4/2011 2:16:09 PM

@all, I was given permission to reprint Peter's latest blog post on our site. It discusses the mechanical failures in the Mark 1 and how they could play a role in Fukushima. houseoffoust.com
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 2:16:44 PM

@lily, it's at the top of the tall stack right in front of U3. Tilting you monitor back if it's flatscreen can increase the contrast, making it easier to see. Bobby couldn't see it last he commented on it, but both Edano and I can. It's there.
by Ian 7/4/2011 2:18:48 PM

French smear campaign against the Japanese to shore up their nuclear business. mdn.mainichi.jp
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 2:21:27 PM

@Ian tried moving the screen - could be my laptop. Will look at it later on my big monitor if I get to my office today.
by lillymunster 7/4/2011 2:22:40 PM