Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2141

@Peter Melzer thankyou Peter
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 9:47:33 PM

@lillymunster , the study is low-level radiation effects on workers. I have not found anything on the children yet, :(
by Peter Melzer 8/13/2011 9:50:27 PM

---It may be useful to say a bit more about the age dependance of the radiation risk with respect especially to thyroid and to a certain degree to female breast. In the risk for thyroid cancer the age-gradient is very steep and there is certainly a difference between infants and older children. This is also the case with respect to the latent period. It is interesting that these are organs which are under under endocrinological control with respect to cell proliferation and growth (see paras 4 and 5).

---It may be interesting to indicate that the organ doses are most important.

---I appreciate that it is strongly pointed out the importance of the radiological protection for infants with respect to field size etc. but I wonder why the neonates are only mentioned once (in para 50). For neonates these parameters are even more critical.

I hope my remarks are useful, otherwise forget about.

Best wishes
Christian Streffer
tinyurl.com

That is just the end of the letter somebody doesnt like icrp standards
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 9:57:33 PM

why do icrp links never work I wonder !!
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 9:58:25 PM

This is the doc that Christine Streffer is complaining about www.icrp.org
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:00:21 PM

The potatoes at Hanford comment had me go see. Check many of the US Washington grown apples, many do come from Richmond or Pasco. Major employers also include Reysers, Tyson, Con Agra, all big processed food producers. en.wikipedia.org
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:04:56 PM

Just copying
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:07:31 PM

This is me copying a rockhopper twitter convo She is coming to translate the thyroid doc that she has but I thought the convo was worth saving
ikrockhopper Itsumi Kakefuda
Important!! Thyroid exam results: radio-iodine was detected among half of 1149 children. Max was 35mSv. @yuric117 nhk.jp/N3x96FQZ
krockhopper Itsumi Kakefuda
(cont) 'experts' (who?) say that detected radio-iodine level is low and won't do any harm on health, yet they need to be followed closely.
ikrockhopper Itsumi Kakefuda
(cont) The 1149 kids were in Fukushima, and tests were done at the end of March. As you see here, no potusium iodine. houseoffoust.com/group/?p=2141
What!? According to a reply from @yuric117, the 1149 Fukushima kids' thyroid test result was presented at JP Pediatric Society.
ont) I agree with her!!! ">90% of kids can't evacuate yet. Why did the pediatricians wait til today to present this,
(cont) holding the results for almost half an year? What make them as pediatricians?? Do they seek only the honor?" Really sucks, and sad.
@ElaineKirk @SimplyInfo1 Good morning/afternoon! I'm still in bed, but can't wait to translate the thyroid tweet!
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:10:29 PM

@lillymunster that sounds just like Japans dispersal programme I can see all these taxpayer funded 'experts' in the conference room deciding which area can be subject a wee bit of dispersal
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:14:45 PM

Is there a link to the JP pediatric soc info?
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:15:13 PM

@lillymunster I think that is what rocky is coming to translate can you ask her? she is tweeting from her bed
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:16:28 PM

FYI - all of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientist journals are online at Google books. Including all the old ones from WWII. There is lots of information in those that talk about day to day events and issues at Hanford, Oak Ridge and Los Alamos. Much more than the govt ever bothers to talk about. They are a really good resource. We need to make sure Bo knows this if he doesn't already.
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:17:08 PM

@elainekirk I will catch up with her tonight and figure out if it is online anywhere. Rockhopper brings up a really good point. We are working on half a year and there is no coherant food program and people are still stuck in limbo or shelters.
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:18:22 PM

@lillymunster yes there is no wonder she went to bed with a bad migraine
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:19:32 PM

The BMJ article talks about external dose and increased cancer rates. It is a good point of reference and finally a study with clear facts! :-) They are also extra wonderful for putting their journal articles online for free.
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:24:09 PM

@lillymunster good find of @peters that wasnt it
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:28:11 PM

@elainekirk Yes. Those that I find that are unbiased and useful I am going to try to take notes on the core findings such as who was studied, internal or external exposure and the results such as percentage of risk etc.
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:32:15 PM

Christian Streffer who said the ICRP had got it badly wrong on children's thyroid exposure (link further down) is from Germany it seems www.errs.eu
Can tissue weighting factors be established for the embryo and fetus?
rpd.oxfordjournals.org
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:32:49 PM

www.houseoffoust.com

rad spikes after earthquakes
by Edano via Houseoffoust 8/13/2011 10:41:55 PM

www.houseoffoust.com

strange rad drops after last earthquake
by Edano via Houseoffoust 8/13/2011 10:42:29 PM

@Edano how much more shaking will the concrete containments take? that concrete must be pretty .... do you think it is more corium dropping through causing the drops
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:44:01 PM

@elainekirk ach elaine, i don't know ....... sigh
by Edano 8/13/2011 10:45:55 PM

@Edano do you think Christian Streffer would be useful he certainly seems to think badly of icrp and seems to have worked on the issue of embryo / child thyroid
exposure
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:49:22 PM

@elainekirk going to read it
by Edano 8/13/2011 10:50:06 PM

@Edano I saw that this morning. Thoughts on what it means?
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:50:24 PM

@lillymunster i cannot think of anything that could cause such a rad drop. a crack in containment ?
by Edano 8/13/2011 10:53:21 PM

@Edano I think you have a hole-in-one there ....Edano playing golf... could the corium have made it through the concrete?
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:54:53 PM

@Edano I couldn't see the details on the chart. Was it drywell readings or others?
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 10:56:05 PM

@elainekirk the problem is to get thyroid measuring results. the 35 mSv published is only an extrapolation, a calculated value and we don't know which factors they took. we have to see the real activity values measured in eV. what they do now is they say: hey we measured thyroid activity, which cooresponds to 35 mSv. but that does not mean anything. it is just an interpretation.
by Edano 8/13/2011 10:57:23 PM

@lillymunster Drywell B
by Edano 8/13/2011 10:58:04 PM

@Edano I think what I am looking for is somebody we can present to the Japanese as knowledgable, child friendly , supportive and open who will motivate them even if it means scaring the **** out of them
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 10:59:32 PM

@lillymunster the drywell b reading in #2 jumped from 15.7 to 0.00207 , 0.00218 , 0.832 , 1.35 Sv after the last quake
by Edano 8/13/2011 11:03:29 PM

@Edano #2 has a holed suppression chamber doesnt it?
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 11:09:10 PM

Something had to have moved. Yes Elaine 2 has a hole in the SC. Do we know where the drywell sensor sits exactly?
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:09:41 PM

@lillymunster no, i don't know, i have often asked myself.
by Edano 8/13/2011 11:10:46 PM

hmm. wondering where to look...
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:11:09 PM

The GE manual doesn't say where the sensor is.
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:24:41 PM

@Edano, maybe ask this guy he did research on radiation detection in GE BWR drywell units. I bet he would know where the sensor usually is or where to go find the info profjrwhite.com
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:30:37 PM

OOOOOOOer www.nrc.gov
by elainekirk 8/13/2011 11:33:07 PM

@lillymunster hmmm his page is last updated 2003 ...
by Edano 8/13/2011 11:33:56 PM

Hanford temporarily evacuates workers from area

Posted: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 7:52 am

RICHLAND, Wash. — Workers at the Hanford nuclear reservation were briefly evacuated from a tank farm after a small plume of smoke or steam was spotted coming from a new ventilation system.
The Tri-City Herald reports that the workers were allowed back into the area about 90 minutes after they were evacuated Tuesday.
The new ventilation system was undergoing testing prior to being used for the first time. It has no radioactive contamination because it has not been connected yet.
About 53 million gallons of highly radioactive waste is stored in 177 underground tanks at Hanford. Contractor Washington River Protection Solution is charged with emptying the tanks.
The company says there were no injuries or exposure to radiation. An investigation is under way to determine the source of the smoke or steam.
www.eastoregonian.com
by bo 8/13/2011 11:36:53 PM

@bo thoroughly grossed out to find out how much food is produced near Hanford. :-)
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:40:39 PM

Yup. As I said, before I came to Japan, while I was finishing up my PhD, I was the fruit buyer for an organic produce wholesaler in SF. I had a big map of Washington on the wall and put pins in where each of the orchards were so that I could always buy my fruit as far away from Hanford as possible. For thirty years now I won't buy Columbia Valley wines.
by bo 8/13/2011 11:45:49 PM

I was reading the wiki for the Tri Cities. How much produce comes from Richland and Pasco, applies I know for sure but never made the connection. Someone in a JP blog brought up potatoes. They have 3 big food processors there that do lots of highly processed and fast food - tyson, con agra and reysers
by lillymunster 8/13/2011 11:49:12 PM

Most of the potatoes are grown to the East of the Tri Cities area and are packed there. They are downwind, but upstream. They also don't absorb as much water as the fruit. It is mostly the apples and pears that are grown downriver that worried me. There is also a lot of dairy farming near the site.
by bo 8/13/2011 11:55:40 PM