these numbers are very high.
by Edano 8/15/2011 12:35:10 PM
@RBeaner there are studies showing an increase in other cancers in adults due to Chernobyl. They seem to be dependent on concentrations off radiation in an area.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 12:38:52 PM
@Edano any idea what the time period is?
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 12:43:45 PM
Based on the date ranges in the other charts I think those releases are for that first week after the station blackout.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 1:00:26 PM
@Edano
detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jpAnswers was 4/16.
"I am living in Iwaki city. It was the day our family went to
screening exam, March 26, 27, of 28. I am not sure. Outside of Iwaki
health office, they checked surface of body of every one with a
machine which looked like a Geiger counter.
Then, they asked our kid's age, and officers asked target-age kids,
'please come in here for additional exam." (comment: It doesn't seem
like they got informed consent BEFORE the exam.)
In the room, a physician had a machine which was silver close to my
kid's throat. My kid told me later that the machine was like geiger
counter, and the doctor looked at another machine in his/her hand,
while s/he hover another one over the throat. Not the same machine we
were used outside the office to check the surface of the body.
Later, I read an article on the newspaper, and thought, 'oh, that was
it!" .... (comment: obviously, no informed consent.)
rockhopper translation
by elainekirk 8/15/2011 1:01:56 PM
@Pedro Jesus I can't imagine for the life of me why Yamashita's having obtained a prestigious position precludes his being an idiot, or a tool of industry. Take a look at the pronouncements of the senior members of the American Atomic Energy Commission for decades. Look at how hard Lewis Strauss the AEC Chairman worked to convince people that no one was exposed to radiation from the Bravo blast in 1954, how many times he said any affect was from chemical exposures to coral, that all stories of the exposure of the Lucky Dragon crew (one of whom died from exposure) were well calculated Russian propaganda.
by bo 8/15/2011 1:10:50 PM
How long did Edward Teller, admittedly a brilliant physicist tell everyone that exposure to radiation was probably good for people?
by bo 8/15/2011 1:12:04 PM
@Pedro Jesus do some digging on ex-skf or drop him a comment and ask him. He has been following the Yamashita issue all along and has been trying to use good sources.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 1:22:23 PM
back
by dean 8/15/2011 1:31:18 PM
@dean greetings
by elainekirk 8/15/2011 1:36:30 PM
Hey dean
by bo 8/15/2011 1:38:35 PM
notes on the Tondel study: The excess relative risk was 0.11 per 100 kiloBecquerel/m2 (95% CI 0.03 to 0.20)
The effective dose to the inhabitants, depending on place of residence, outdoor activity, and dietary habits, ranged from 1–2 mSv to a maximum of about 4 mSv in the first year, with some 20% of the dose for a 50 year period received during the first two years
All people who were 0–60 years old in 1986 and who had the same address both on 31 December 1985 and 31 December 1987 were included in a cohort
Cancer cases and deaths in the cohort along with date of diagnosis were retrieved from the Swedish Cancer Registry for 1986 to 1996.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 1:48:08 PM
@Dean. Is there a way to take an environmental rad reading and calculate that to an assumed effective dose?
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 1:52:36 PM
@ lilly.. phone call at work.. will brb
by dean 8/15/2011 1:57:24 PM
hi bo, elaine
by dean 8/15/2011 1:57:59 PM
@ lilly, in those links for calculations on dose and risk I'd think that would be possible as it would be a matter of conversion
by dean 8/15/2011 1:58:40 PM
Just stumbled across a 1986 edition of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists - Chernobyl issue - lots of good articles on Chernobyl
books.google.com by lillymunster 8/15/2011 1:58:45 PM
@ lilly, may I ask.. what's been the main topic of YAMASHITA?
by dean 8/15/2011 1:59:43 PM
@dean you mean the risc sheet?
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 2:00:21 PM
@dean I am assuming your asking what our topic on Yamashita is?
That is two fold
1. The locals do not trust him, his statements have caused people to lose confidence and fear the study.
2. The study does nothing for public health or the improvement of the health outcomes of the population impacted. His study only cares about collecting cancer data later on.
Yamshita's background and all of his research is focused on long term understanding of the cellular and genetic processes of cancer formation. He has no background in public health or preventative medicine. He is purely a researcher. The govt. has forbid anyone but these govt programs to do rad testing of people in a medical situation so doctors can't treat their own patients forcing everyone into the study. This has public health and ethics implications.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 2:03:14 PM
To calculate the additional risk from fallout,
download the charts for your prefecture from MEXT data (English) or MEXT data (Japanese):
Calculate the average rate; it is given in microsieverts per hour (µSv/h). (Exclude any short-term peaks as these will have been caused by radioactivity landing on the detectors and associated structures; it will since have been washed off by rain.)
Find the historical background rate for your area, given as Range of past usual figures at the bottom of the charts (typical values are 0.017 - 0.1) Subtract this from your average.
Multiply the result by 1565. Your new result will be the number of additional, fallout-related cancers expected in ten years for every 100,000 people in the population of your prefecture (This is over and above the pre-accident rate, calculated for all malignancies in the Japanese population.)
by dean 8/15/2011 2:04:44 PM
I'll have to read up on yamashita some as I am not familiar yet
by dean 8/15/2011 2:05:20 PM
www.llrc.org that is about 3/4ths the way down the page on that link @ lilly
by dean 8/15/2011 2:05:58 PM
and also there was the conversion tables for the isotopes that is used in the calculations for the increased risks
by dean 8/15/2011 2:06:29 PM
Dean, our page with notes of studies found and also a section with links on Yamashita
wp.meby lillymunster 8/15/2011 2:06:35 PM
@ lilly.. the link suggests taking a recent reading and then using the MEXT historical data to subtract the values (that would show the increase) and then calculate the increased risk from there for the specific isotope involved
by dean 8/15/2011 2:09:16 PM
@lillymunster i don't know the time period. but the doc is dated to 6/6.
by Edano 8/15/2011 2:19:13 PM
@dean thanks. Have it flagged to go through when I have some uninterrupted time. I think we are gradually getting our hands around this to be able to quantify things somewhat.
@Edano, I will ask Rockhopper to take a peek at it when she has some time. The other charts show the first week but the dialogue mentions may and late march
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 2:22:47 PM
@ lilly,, I would sign the petition also to oust that man and request that he be removed from the medical board lateral move he made also.
by dean 8/15/2011 2:47:05 PM
@dean he is facing a lawsuit from 90 well known people in Japan including a bunch of journalists due to his comments. Rockhopper may know if a petition to oust him has been started. The mayor of Fukushima City was influential in hiring the guy. I think he thought the "everything is great" Yamashita was pitching was going to save his city.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 3:15:15 PM
Just an FYI what I am working on for the group site. I have piles of stuff from Hanford. I am putting it into 4-5 separate articles each covering aspects of Hanford to give a fuller understanding of the situation so people in Japan can properly relate it to exposures and such from Fuku. Studies on the health outcomes are limited due to them being done decades after the fact but there is enough to make some statements about the known outcomes. Once I have them written I will put up for peer review with full biblio and other links we found during research phase. Once I have hanford done I can try to assemble the found studies and information on radiation exposures. Please keep digging for studies and data, all of that will help us build a better picture of risk vs. exposure.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 3:30:03 PM
sounds good @ lilly
by dean 8/15/2011 3:34:28 PM
www.senrinomichi.com Fukushima Network to Protect Children from Radiation has launched a petition (deadline END JULY), in which they seek the dismissal of Shunichi Yamashita (Atomic Bomb Disease Institute, Nagasaki University) from his position as Radiation Health Risk Management Advisor to Fukushima Prefecture.
by dean 8/15/2011 3:35:54 PM
@dean Great Find! :-) Oh darn, it ended July.
by lillymunster 8/15/2011 3:42:30 PM
the video is in japanese but I'll bet it's very compeling and emotional
by dean 8/15/2011 3:44:42 PM
cbbstoday.org as early as March 24, 2011 yamashita was making claims
by dean 8/15/2011 3:50:55 PM
@bo We have to keep an eye on that Dr Yamashita. I'd like to find a full video of that symposium I mentioned earlier about the Fukushima crisis. But we also need more evidence. Those videos posted on Youtube from July 2ND till recently are all cut and paste. We need to find the originals.by Pedro Jesus 8/15/2011 1:13:58 PM
Regarding the Yamashita video, I listened to it and as far as I could make out the spoken Japanese matched the subtitles. My wife, who is Japanese, also listened to it and again found the spoken Japanese corresponded to the subtitles. The sound quality is not perfect however. Smiling to avoid consequences of radiation was clear to listen to though.by Will 8/15/2011 1:57:49 PM
Reuters Africa Aug 15, TABLE-Tokyo Electric's power supplies at end-August af.reuters.comby Mid Valley 8/15/2011 2:05:42 PM
Aussie 60 Min and Kaku: Fukushima and Chernobyl Radiation In All Of Us
hudebnik
alblee
UKVal
Oliver (ScribbleLive)
Jonathan Keebler
kaykodh
PKelley
Markfm
Angie
Deb
Mid Valley
Matt (ScribbleLive)
George Gibb
IanGoddard