Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2266

nite all!
by lillymunster 8/29/2011 3:24:18 AM

bump
by Mid Valley 8/29/2011 5:27:37 AM

@Ian @Peter Melzer RE Water level in #3 not increasing when injection started... I thought water level had declined Below the ability to measure, so it would take a significant addition before the instrumentation would show an increasing level.
by RBeaner 8/29/2011 6:49:11 AM

@RBeaner, if that was an expected result, I wonder why they seem to mention it as a sign. They seem to be ascribing meaning to it that implies a relation to Unit 1's explosion, and thus that it indicates an explosion risk. What's your reading of their meaning here?

"Taking account of the situation that the water level within the pressure vessel did not rise for a long time and the radiation dose is increasing, we cannot exclude the possibility that the same situation occurred at Unit 1 on Mar 12 will occur. We are considering the countermeasure to prevent that." www.tepco.co.jp
by Ian 8/29/2011 9:24:28 AM

Nice breakdown of NISA's and TEPCO's reactor-condition analyses.
by Ian 8/29/2011 9:27:19 AM

www.yomiuri.co.jp Nice breakdown of NISA's and TEPCO's reactor-condition analyses. From: h
ttp://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110607005367.htm
by Ian via Yomiuri.co.jp 8/29/2011 9:28:07 AM

@Ian g'morning that comparison is good nice and clear
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 9:57:16 AM

Hi Elaine! Though I'm skeptica
l of it, least wrt Unit 3.
by Ian 8/29/2011 10:03:26 AM

From the Tepco data collected here, it looks obvious that reactor melt-through occurred between 9:10 and 9:25 AM March 13:

Unit 3 Reactor Pressure (B/C)

09:55, March 13 0.341
09:25, March 13 0.451
09:10, March 13 7.341
08:20, March 13 7.341
08:00, March 13 7.371
by Ian 8/29/2011 10:04:01 AM

Good morning, there is a detailed table with the title "Table IV-5-3 Fukushima Daiichi NPS, Unit 3 – Main Chronology (Provisional)" on the timeline of unit 3 events in the NISA report fukushima.grs.de on page IV-81. I can't extract the table. Hence I post the link to the whole doc.
by Peter Melzer 8/29/2011 10:21:32 AM

@Peter Melzer I will see if I can get it
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 10:28:04 AM

@Ian you have to take in account other explanations for the pressure drops than a meltthrough. the vessel seals may have failed due to overscale temperature. the vessel bottom is proned for seal breaks because of the control rod housing.
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:30:06 AM

in fact, it is only logical that the seals fail at first and then a meltdown occurs. meltdown temperature is nearly 3000°C. the seals will definitely leak earlier.
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:31:49 AM

@Peter this one ? fukushima.grs.de 1V-81
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 10:32:04 AM

@elainekirk , yes, but it has three more pages in the NISA doc.
by Peter Melzer 8/29/2011 10:41:12 AM

@Edano, perhaps you can cite a source. The modeling of Mark-I melt-through in Cook et al. www.ornl.gov is very detailed and mentions nothing I can find about reactor seals failing before melt-through.
It mentions drywell EPA seal failure after melt-through.
by Ian 8/29/2011 10:42:21 AM

@Ian "The pressure (Fig. 4) decreases after core plate dryout
due to leakage through the MSIVs to the condenser. Fuel melting
starts at 604 mins and structural relocation continues (dropping onto a dry cote plate) until the core plate fails (on temperature) at 682
mins." www.osti.gov
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:45:31 AM

"After core collapse, the core debris boils off the water in the
vessel bottom head over a period of ~15 mins and, in the process, the core debris cools to 1580 K (2384°F). The debris then reheats, eventually failing a bottom head penetration at 734 mins. This causes the vessel to depressurize (Fig. 4) until the vessel pressure equalizes with the drywell pressure (Fig. 5). At this point, the corium is still
solid; it is assumed to leave the vessel when it reaches a liquid state
at 2200 K (35OO°F)." [same source]
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:48:19 AM

edano, in the NCIC presentation of last March, the professores suspected that the gasket for the yellow containment of unit three failed because of high temps, releasing hydrogen for example. Elaine found a report on cracks at rpv penetrations for some monitoring device of unit 3: www2.jnes.go.jp
by Peter Melzer 8/29/2011 10:52:13 AM

@Edano, good find! However, it looks like in Ott et al. you cite that depressurization is followed by corium leaving the vessel in about 50 minutes, which puts melt-through at about 10:25 AM, contra NISA's timing of 10:10 PM.

by Ian 8/29/2011 10:52:42 AM

this is mentioned Fig. 4
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:55:02 AM

What's interesting is that RPV depressurization is almost exactly times with the initiation of reflooding, and a lot of research shows that corium heat increases briefly with reflooding.
by Ian 8/29/2011 10:55:48 AM

@Edano, right, it's about 50 minutes from depressurization (around 750 min) to melt-through (@ 800 minutes).
by Ian 8/29/2011 10:58:22 AM

@Ian maybe the seawater injection (though too late) or other manipulations delayed the process. i think the models only show the scenario without any countermeasures. i am not sure if they are valid in this case.
by Edano 8/29/2011 10:59:54 AM

These research
on reflooding that suggests it would not delay but accelerate melt-through.
by Ian 8/29/2011 11:01:30 AM

Fig. 6 drywell atmospheric temperature after battery exhaustion
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:08:21 AM

NPR News:"Japan's ruling party elected Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda as its new chief Monday, paving the way for him to be the next prime minister and inherit the daunting task of recovering from the huge tsunami and nuclear crisis."
by Peter Melzer 8/29/2011 11:14:46 AM

"The CORA quench experiments 12.13 (PWR) and 17 (BWR) are in agreement with
the inpile tests LOFT LP-FP-2 and PBF SFD-STand the TMI accident: Flooding of
hot Zircaloy clad fuel rods does not result in an immediate cooldown of the
bundle, but produces a remarkable temporary temperature increase connected
to a strong peak in hydrogen production."pdfs\FZKA5679.pdf
by Ian 8/29/2011 11:14:58 AM

bibliothek.fzk.de
by Ian 8/29/2011 11:15:33 AM

@Peter Melzer good news.
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:16:03 AM

Noda elected new DPJ president

Japan's main governing party, the Democratic Party, has elected Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda as its new leader.
He is almost certain to become the next prime minister.

The Democratic Party held a leadership election on Monday with 5 candidates running for the top post.

None of them won a majority in the first round. Economy minister Banri Kaieda and Noda advanced to a runoff.

Of the 395 votes from lawmakers, Noda secured 215 while Kaieda garnered 177.

Following his victory, Noda said he will bear the responsibility of leading the party, and he asked the lawmakers for support.

He also said he feels bonds with the other candidates and wants to leave their election fight behind.

He added that he is deeply attached to his party and expressed his resolve to unite its members.

Noda will succeed Prime Minister Naoto Kan, who has expressed his intention to step down as the leader of the party and the head of the government.

The cabinet is expected to resign en masse in the next couple of days and the Diet will elect a new prime minister.

Noda, who is also the Finance Minister, held a news conference on Monday shortly after he won the Party leadership election.

He said he wants to speed up reconstruction efforts in areas hit by the March 11th earthquake and tsunami.
He added that he will listen to various opinions and wants to visit disaster-hit areas soon.

On a possible tax increase to finance reconstruction projects, Noda said he wants to wait for the government tax panel to present multiple options to the new party leadership.

He ruled out the possibility of calling a snap general election. He said Japan cannot afford a political Vacuum and people should work together to help reconstruct northeastern Japan.

Monday, August 29, 2011 17:16 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:16:48 AM

i was really afraid tepco puppy Kaieda would make it.
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:17:29 AM

Workers enter Fukushima Daini containment vessel

Workers have entered a containment vessel at the Fukushima Daini nuclear power plant for the first time since it was hit by the March quake and tsunami.

Tokyo Electric Power Company said it sent workers into the containment vessel housing the No. 4 reactor on Monday. They are checking for possible damage, plus measuring radiation levels and the temperature inside.

TEPCO says it wanted to carry out the inspections as pressure inside the containment vessel had increased at one time after the disaster.

The March earthquake caused an automatic shutdown of all 4 reactors at Fukushima Daini, located near the troubled Fukushima Daiichi plant. The ensuing tsunami partially damaged equipment to use seawater as coolant at the No. 4 and 2 other reactors.

TEPCO says the condition of the No.4 reactor has been stable since a cold shutdown was achieved 4 days after the disaster by using an external power supply.

Monday, August 29, 2011 14:57 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:19:12 AM

greetings to all
by dean 8/29/2011 11:19:33 AM

english.kyodonews.jp

Early rice shipped in Fukushima
Early harvest rice is shipped from the rice farm of Shunichi Sakuma (L) in Koriyama, Fukushima Prefecture, on Aug. 29, 2011. Sakuma shipped the rice first among the five growers of the rice brand ''Mizuhokogane'' in the prefecture, following the announcement by the Fukushima prefectural government that no radioactive substances were found in samples of rice harvested in the nuclear crisis-hit prefecture. (Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 8/29/2011 11:22:14 AM

Japan business circle welcomes Noda as new DPJ president

TOKYO, Aug. 29, Kyodo

Japanese business circles welcomed the election Monday of Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda as leader of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan, and thus the country's next prime minister, while urging him to swiftly proceed with measures to realize Japan's economic recovery.

''Mr. Noda is a stable leader, well versed in taxation, finance and social security policies, and with Japanese politics facing difficult times, (his election) is heartening,'' said Hiromasa Yonekura, chairman of the Japan Business Federation or Keidanren.

At a press conference in Tokyo, the head of Keidanren, which represents Japan's largest companies, also called for Noda to create a strong Cabinet and proceed with rebuilding areas devastated by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami, while indicating the major business lobby may tolerate tax increases to finance the rebuilding, as proposed by Noda.
english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 8/29/2011 11:23:24 AM

@dean @Edano that rice will be dispersed around the globe that is what I think :( greetings dean
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 11:24:20 AM

@elaine, hi elaine, it probably will be mixed with good rice, I wonder what the industrial use is of rice?
by dean 8/29/2011 11:28:51 AM

@dean I think there is one I will look
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 11:36:56 AM

@Edano what is your opinion on new pm?
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 11:37:39 AM

Morning all, been busy this morning I see. :-)
by lillymunster 8/29/2011 11:53:26 AM

@lillymunster g'morning
by elainekirk 8/29/2011 11:54:48 AM

@dean I have heard of rice being used as a polishing medium. I worry it will get put into the food relief program or pet food if it isn't somehow used in Japan for food consumption. Bo mentioned early on worries about contaminated food being used in processed food products where people can't back track the source. It could also end up in beer or sake.
by lillymunster 8/29/2011 11:56:02 AM