Japan Earthquake | Page 2261
@dean I am hoping Peter might have an idea since he looked into the systems.
There are reports in the JP press that someone is claiming the largest portion of the early releases into the air were mostly tellerium. They are referencing something about that being the excuse for not giving people protective iodine....by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:26:25 PM
@ lilly I think they are playing on the decay chain and picking some isotope and then saying.. oh.. it can't be Iodineby dean 8/28/2011 1:28:51 PM- Te to Iodine to Xenon to Cs to stable state Barium ... Nuclide Half life
135Te |19.0(2) s
135I 6.57(2) h
135Xe 9.14(2) h
135Cs 2.3(3)E+6 a
135Ba stableby dean 8/28/2011 1:33:00 PM - as can be seen.. I think the fact that Te has a 1/2 life of 19 seconds, dismissed that theoryby dean 8/28/2011 1:33:50 PM
- They are using the tellerium to claim there wasn't enough I-131 to cause harm.
Sunny just posted this. Looks like more details on unit 4. Have you seen the schematic for #4's vents?
www.tepco.co.jpby lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:34:15 PM - very short lives isotope... and would probably have decayed during transport time to #4by dean 8/28/2011 1:34:20 PM
- @ lilly I haven't ,,, and they are wrongby dean 8/28/2011 1:34:55 PM
- @dean LOL! I hadn't looked at that. I am going to see if some of our bilingual volunteers can help me with the proper translation on the two documents talking about this. Then I can bring accurate translations here so we can debunk them.by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:35:08 PM
- Here is the initial TEPCO doc on 4 www.tepco.co.jpby lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:37:09 PM
- I-131 is a byproduct of fission process from the fission fragment curve.. a whole group at the 131 level such as the I-131, Te etc, and another set of fission fragments at around the 92 level.by dean 8/28/2011 1:38:16 PM
- This is because I-131 is a major uranium, plutonium and indirectly thorium fission product, comprising nearly 3% of the total products of fission (by weight).by dean 8/28/2011 1:38:50 PM
- from the WIKIby dean 8/28/2011 1:38:57 PM
- it is born at fission and has an 8 day 1/2 life so it's there from the beginningby dean 8/28/2011 1:39:31 PM
- It looks like they really failed on the understanding of radiation releases early on. What is so odd is these mistakes that were told to the public in March were coming out of Japan's nuclear research agency.by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:43:09 PM
good morning, lilly and dean. What I once compiled on unit 4 is here: brainmindinst.blogspot.com . The diagram with the sequence of rad readings in the filters of the SGTS supports tepco's hypothesis. Still that enough hydrogen can seep through this system from another building to cause an explosion of that scale?by Peter Melzer 8/28/2011 1:44:42 PM- here are some thoughts, first off, lets assume the height of each floor is 15 feet , that is 5 x 15 = 60 feet or the vertical distance that the fission products and hydrogen must over come to get at that eleveation in the building, second, what's the interlocks for the SGTS system that automatically shuts down the dampers into and out of the system. at least 2 dampers need to fail open and assuming backflow through the SGTS system is possible.. then they can say.. POSSIBLY... hmmmmm I don't know about all ahtby dean 8/28/2011 1:46:19 PM
- good morning Peterby dean 8/28/2011 1:46:27 PM
- good report Peterby dean 8/28/2011 1:49:43 PM
- Each SBGT train generally consists of a mist eliminator/roughing filter; an electric heater; a prefilter; two absolute (HEPA) filters; an activated charcoal filter; an exhaust fan; and associated valves, ductwork, dampers, instrumentation, and controls. The signals that trip the SBGT system are plant-specific; however, automatic trips are generally associated with the electric heaters and a high temperature condition in the charcoal filtersby dean 8/28/2011 1:52:40 PM
- @dean the reports of the efforts to vent unit 1 and 3 kept saying the vents were slamming shut and they could not keep them open. So how could #4's vents be open?by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:52:43 PM
- @ lilly.. the primary vents I believe are those... the SBGT are for the secondary containment I believeby dean 8/28/2011 1:53:51 PM
- @dean would a shutdown at 4 impact anything? I assumed vents would be shut by default. Is there any sort of testing that could have locked the vents open? They were doing testing and maintenance before the quake at 4.by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:53:57 PM
- My question was, if #3 could really generate enough hydrogen to cause 2 massive explosions what does that say about MOX fuel?by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:55:40 PM
- @dean , there is a feed from the dry well as well. In Japan the system is apparently housed in an annex to the reactor building.by Peter Melzer 8/28/2011 1:56:16 PM
- I only found this diagram. But yesterday elaine posted it translated: www.tepco.co.jpby Peter Melzer 8/28/2011 1:58:44 PM
- We also know that the hydrogen would have stopped flowing when 3 blew up and severed the pipe. How long then did 4 sit with all this hydrogen in it? How could it then have one small fire that was put out, two blown out panels and still hold that high level of hydrogen to later blow up?by lillymunster 8/28/2011 1:58:45 PM
- true @ Peter.. I was looking at all the internal components in the SBGT and thinking, the backflow of gas and isotopes would need to go through all that with a driving force sufficient enough to make it into the building exhaust system. Mose of these systems have interlocking dampers etc that separate areas to isolate unwanted cross flow etc. so I'm just not convinced that the path is possibleby dean 8/28/2011 1:58:59 PM
- I have a longer post to make in here... so be prepared..by dean 8/28/2011 2:02:22 PM
unit 4
by lillymunster 8/28/2011 2:02:55 PM- The image is TEPCO's claim how the hydrogen got into the floors. Does this make sense? This also doesn't explain how the 1st floor had a severe explosionby lillymunster 8/28/2011 2:04:19 PM
www.nrc.gov @ lilly can you pull out the section on SGTS STARTING at page 7.3-50by dean 8/28/2011 2:04:49 PM- That is for an ABWR does that matter or are they the same?by lillymunster 8/28/2011 2:06:50 PM
@lillymunster where is your diagram url if I know url I should be able to get you english versionby elainekirk 8/28/2011 2:07:18 PM
visible post of the diagram from yesterday: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 8/28/2011 2:09:28 PM- they operate the same lilly from the write up I beliveby dean 8/28/2011 2:10:25 PM
This might help as well: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 8/28/2011 2:10:55 PM- that's a good one @ Peterby dean 8/28/2011 2:12:48 PM
- @elainekirk .....pdfs\handouts_110515_02-j.pdf........by lillymunster 8/28/2011 2:12:56 PM
and here is another one: i1214.photobucket.com . For tepco's hypothesis to work valve AO 73 in unit 3 must fail open: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 8/28/2011 2:15:52 PM
and here is another one: i1214.photobucket.com . For tepco's hypothesis to work valve AO 73 in unit 3 must fail open: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 8/28/2011 2:15:52 PM- sorry, doubled the post somehow, ;)by Peter Melzer 8/28/2011 2:16:32 PM
- @ Peter, I belive from reading that they have delta pressure instrumentation that would shut down the system and possibly indicate plugged filters, so if the driving force is backwards through the system it's seems like that may trip it off line.. just some thoughtby dean 8/28/2011 2:18:52 PM
- I will return I need to go transport people to sunday service who otherwise cannot...by dean 8/28/2011 2:19:16 PM
and here is a pic of the junction between the two SGTS at the stack: i1214.photobucket.com
by Peter Melzer via I1214.photobucket 8/28/2011 2:19:36 PM- good one @ Peterby dean 8/28/2011 2:19:57 PM
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