Japan Earthquake | Page 2483

  • brunswick might not have vents? pbadupws.nrc.gov
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:05:04 AM

  • @elainekirk, I mean the outside temps where the steam appears.
    by Ian 10/10/2011 12:05:52 AM

  • checking Brunswick
    by smoss 10/10/2011 12:07:04 AM

  • @Ian ah righty ho I go looky
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 12:07:14 AM

  • pics of brunswick that are newer show a big concrete tower like Monticello has
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:09:34 AM

  • Peach bottom has a vent
    Browns Ferry has a vent
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:12:01 AM

  • @Ian still looking this is Japan met office www.jma.go.jp
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 12:18:53 AM

  • It might be Dresden 1-2 built in 1971 a black and white photo shows a small tower for each meaning they were not the 1980's hardened vents. Trying to find a good newer picture to see
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:22:12 AM

  • @Ian got it for you www.worldweatheronline.com
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 12:22:32 AM

  • by lillymunster via 2.bp.blogspot 10/10/2011 12:22:53 AM

  • by elainekirk 10/10/2011 12:24:01 AM

  • Brunswick "Installation of a Hardened Wetwell Vent," on October 27, 1989 (Serial: NLS-89-29 1).
    by smoss 10/10/2011 12:24:24 AM

  • "No NRC orders were issued to require installation of a hard pipe vent, and all modifications made were voluntarily. Licensees were allowed to justify not installing the hard pipe vent based on plant unique configuration and circumstances. All 23 BWR Mark I plants either installed the modification described in the generic letter (22 plants), or justified use of existing plant safety features (one plant). Installation of the vent was designed to improve safety of the plants in the U.S." news.nuclear.com
    by Edano 10/10/2011 12:26:00 AM

  • @lillymunster Is Dresden I-2 Mark I containment?
    by smoss 10/10/2011 12:26:24 AM

  • @Edano Exactly! And yet the NRC protocol now seems to insist that all BWR Mark I plants installed the modification....
    by smoss 10/10/2011 12:27:47 AM

  • @all All boiling water reactors with Mark I containments voluntarily installed hardened wetwell vents in the early 1990’s. The wetwell vents are intended to ensure containment integrity is maintained by preventing containment overpressure. pbadupws.nrc.gov WRITTEN STATEMENT
    BY GREGORY B. JACZKO, CHAIRMAN
    by smoss 10/10/2011 12:30:01 AM

  • dresden seems to have vents for 2-3 and unit 1 not a mark 1 heraldnews.suntimes.com
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:33:33 AM

  • @elainekirk, thanks!
    by Ian 10/10/2011 12:36:40 AM

  • vermont yankee ? docs.google.com
    by Edano 10/10/2011 12:41:40 AM

  • dwqovw6qi0vie.cloudfront.net @Edano, do you posted this nice graphic way back www.scribblelive.com . Do you recall the source? I see it says The Asahi Shimbun on the graphic, but using that isn't helping me find the source page. I might like to point to this in a video. I'm thinking a short video on the steam issues is in order.

    by Ian via Dwqovw6qi0vie.cloudfront.net 10/10/2011 12:47:15 AM

  • A second later I find it : ajw.asahi.com Thanks for posting it Edano!
    by Ian 10/10/2011 12:48:34 AM

  • Vermont yankee has the same funky concrete tower as Monticello atomicinsights.com

    Looking at Indian Point. There is a tower, I can't find an old photo to see if it is the retrofit vent tower. I did find this time line of some of the issues at Indian Point, like the containment steel collapsing. www.ipsecinfo.org

    by lillymunster via Atomicinsights 10/10/2011 12:56:00 AM

  • Not 100% sure on VY - can't find an old pic on that one either.
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 12:56:57 AM

  • @lillymunster news.nationalgeographic.com Pictures—Ten Oldest U.S. Nuclear Plants: Post-Japan Risks
    by Edano 10/10/2011 12:59:40 AM

  • Oooh the tower at Indian Point is old.
    3.bp.blogspot.com

    theblogattheendoftheworld.blogspot.com

    by lillymunster via 3.bp.blogspot 10/10/2011 1:00:37 AM

  • @lillymunster thatr would wobble in a quake
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 1:02:22 AM

  • New pic of Indian Point, I don't see another tower added inhabitat.com

    by lillymunster via Inhabitat 10/10/2011 1:05:37 AM

  • could be the Hatch plant in georgia
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 1:07:09 AM

  • Vermont Yankee spokesman Larry Smith says the plant already installed hardened vents - a modification he says was made in the 1980s. www.vpr.net
    by Edano 10/10/2011 1:07:35 AM

  • The concrete stacks seen at some of these plants that I am assuming are the hardened vent of the 80's would likely not survive a quake. If they are hardened venting the NRC should be challenged on proving seismic ability of those concrete towers.
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 1:07:45 AM

  • Hatch has a tower, not sure if it is a venting tower or old one www.hazlehurst-jeffdavis.org

    by lillymunster via Hazlehurst-jeffdavis.org 10/10/2011 1:08:57 AM

  • do we have that ? from oct 9 Fukushima Daiichi: Cooling water injection reliability description

    by Edano 10/10/2011 1:12:51 AM

  • I havent seen it Edano
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 1:14:25 AM

  • from the nrc doc pbadupws.nrc.gov
    In addition, some operations on Unit 1 require operators to
    disconnect and install air lines by climbing and standing on piping directly over a 30 ft drop.
    This operation would normally require scaffolding, and would require some personal safety
    risk to perform with no prior scaffold support. The licensee generated condition reports CR
    2011105966 and CR 2011106007 to document these issues.
    by elainekirk 10/10/2011 1:15:05 AM

  • I found this in the latest NRC staff recommendation based on the earlier Fukushima Task Force Report, which I cannot find right now. Regardless here find an excerpt from the recommendation bit.ly : "Staff Assessment and Basis for Prioritization BWR Mark I primary containments should have a reliable hardened vent for mitigating beyond-design-basis events. The NTTF recommendation aligns with long-standing staffrecommendations for the Mark I as documented in SECY 89-17, I found this NRC staff recommendation based on the Fukushima Task Force Report. I cite the pertinent part “Mark I Containment Performance Improvement Program,” and GL 89-16. The Fukushima Daiichi accident highlighted the importance of the wetwell vent function, the accessibility of the valves and the capability for operation independent of AC power. All Mark I plants have installed a hardened vent. The degree to which the vent can be used during an extended SBO relies on actions taken to comply with 10 CFR 50.54(hh)(2). Further, these vents have not been designed to any standard governing “ease of use,” comprising accessibility and operability under a range of conditions including SBO and high radiation fields. The staff has also performed extensive studies of the safety benefits of containment venting for the Mark II containment design, which like the Mark I is an inerted pressure suppression design,although of larger volume. The Mark II was not included in the scope of GL 89-16 at the time it was written in part because the wetwell scrubbing of a fission product release from containment resulting from a beyond-design-basis accident was felt to be less certain than for the Mark I. In light of Fukushima Daiichi and the benefits of preserving the integrity of the containment in beyond-design-basis accidents, Mark II plants should have a reliable hardened vent either on the basis of either (1) more recent analysis that acceptably reduces the uncertainty of a scrubbed release, or (2) a design that reduces the uncertainty.The staff concludes that it would be appropriate to redefine what level of protection of public health and safety should be regarded as adequate for venting of BWR Mark I and Mark II primary containments. In addition, the issue of containment vent filtration has been raised as an additional recommendation which is undergoing further staff review. The staff will need to develop a regulatory basis and acceptance criteria for the reliable hardened vent that encompasses prolonged SBO operation, vent capacity, accessibility, and safe hydrogen and fission product processing for both Mark I and Mark II containments.The staff concludes that this recommendation would improve safety. Since sufficient resourceflexibility, including availability of critical skill sets, exists, the staff prioritized this action as aTier 1 recommendation."
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:16:15 AM

  • It is the understanding of the Petitioner that a certain number of nuclear power plants operators may have installed the DTVS (“hardened vent systems” also known as the Direct Torus Vent System DTVS) but subsequently either abandoned it or removed it while some number of operators did not follow-through with the installation of these hardened vents for on their containments.
    A complete and transparent review is necessary to determine which and why operators did and did not experiment with the hardened vent systems to mitigate potential severe accident consequences in Mark 1 containment systems. www.beyondnuclear.org
    by smoss 10/10/2011 1:19:45 AM

  • I believe the one without any hardened vent is a Mark II. Dresden 1 is retired. You may see the problems in my quotation though. If a station blackout like in Fukushima happened in this country today, the operators would be searching with flashlights for the valves in the reactor building like tepco did. Hope that helps.
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:20:12 AM

  • @smoss , I saw that one, too. If they rendered them inoperable, it 'd be a violation. I also remember a complaint by NRC inspectors that hardened vents were not adequately hardened.
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:36:33 AM

  • @Peter I must admit that I haven't followed your research as closely as I should have, I know that you've been following this thread for quite some time. Thanks for your input!
    by smoss 10/10/2011 1:39:24 AM

  • @smoss , you are more than welcome. There is so much input provided here, I lose track myself. We shall all figure things out.
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:43:59 AM

  • @smoss , I found my memory back and another nugget. It is not that NRC has not known the weaknesses for a long time: "...with the existing hardware and procedures at some plants, it may not be possible to open or close the vent valves for some severe accident scenarios.
    The staff concluded that venting, if properly implemented, could have a significant benefit on plant risk. However, venting via a sheet metal ductwork path, as currently implemented at some MARK I plants, would be likely to greatly hamper or complicate post-accident recovery activities, and was therefore viewed by the staff as yielding reduced improvements in safety. The capability to vent has been recognized as important in reducing risk from operation of MARK I plants for loss of long-term decay heat removal (TW) events, provided the potential downsides of using existing hardware are corrected. Controlled venting can prevent the failure of ECCS pumps from both inadequate NPSH and re-closure of the ADS valves." This quotation is taken from this report issued in 1992: www.nrc.gov
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:51:55 AM

  • This is almost to the t the Fukushima scenario!
    by Peter 10/10/2011 1:53:16 AM

  • I would love to know the basis for Beyond Nuclear's claim that the venting systems have been abandoned or removed at certain reactors.
    by lillymunster 10/10/2011 1:59:47 AM

  • @Peter So approx. 20 years later and the NRC is clearly contradicting itself, in an effort to convince the public that our BWR with Mark I (and Mark II) containments would retain their capacity to control venting in certain severe accident scenarios. "enhanced wetwell vents for Mark I and Mark II containments designs would provide a reliable means for venting hydrogen to the atmosphere. These steps would greatly reduce the likelihood of hydrogen explosions from a severe accident." pbadupws.nrc.gov @lillymunster I agree...from what source are they drawing their information to make those claims.
    by smoss 10/10/2011 2:04:22 AM

  • @smoss , nothing but well-meaning suggestions with conditionals throughout. Nobody knows whether the diverse designs would work adequately, if needed. What also bugs me is that the effluent is released unfiltered, except for what is left behind in the suppression pool.
    by Peter 10/10/2011 2:11:55 AM

Japan Earthquake | Page 2483

Who's Blogging
  • hudebnikhudebnik
  • albleealblee
  • UKValUKVal
  • Oliver (ScribbleLive)Oliver (ScribbleLive)
  • Jonathan KeeblerJonathan Keebler
  • kaykodhkaykodh
  • PKelleyPKelley
  • MarkfmMarkfm
  • AngieAngie
  • DebDeb
  • Mid ValleyMid Valley
  • Pedro Jesus
  • Matt (ScribbleLive)Matt (ScribbleLive)
  • George GibbGeorge Gibb
  • elainekirkelainekirk
  • lillymunsterlillymunster
  • deandean
  • bobo
  • EdanoEdano
  • IanGoddardIanGoddard