Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2886

but they speak of steam inside. so this means imo that there is still ongoing fission on the containment bottom.
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:28:35 PM

@Edano We have the pics, I did some photo enhancement but they are so bad there isn't much I can do with them. Photos here www.simplyinfo.org
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 5:28:35 PM

@lillymunster thx
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:29:07 PM

Should we expect to see a water line, anyway? I mean, when the fuel melted through the bottom it must have left some passage ways through which the water would easily sip through gathering at the bottom of the containment vessel. What we need to know is the full capacity of the containment vessel and an estimate of how much water is expected to have been input. Then we would know roughly where a water line would have been, and if and how much water has been leaking out of the containment.
by Pedro Jesus 1/19/2012 5:29:33 PM

it is disappointing, but somehow i did not expect better images.
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:30:50 PM

@Pedro Jesus the water line is what TEPCO assumed based on a sensor
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 5:31:42 PM

@lillymunster Is it like a water gauge used in fuel deposits? They can easily jam.
by Pedro Jesus 1/19/2012 5:33:01 PM

TEPCO captures images inside crippled Fukushima reactor for 1st time

TOKYO, Jan. 19, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co. on Thursday passed an industrial endoscope into one of the reactors that suffered meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in the first attempt by the plant operator to directly check the interiors of the crippled reactors.

The 70-minute examination of the No. 2 reactor showed that the inner temperature of the primary container stood at 44.7 C, not much different from the figure using existing measuring equipment, but the surface of the water filling the structure appeared to be less than 4 meters above the bottom, lower than the initial rough estimate.

Tokyo Electric spokesman Junichi Matsumoto said the result does not affect the current assessment that the reactor has achieved a stable state of cold shutdown, while noting major damage to inner pipes has not been confirmed so far. english.kyodonews.jp kyodo has the seven photos online as well.
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:35:35 PM

Here www.tepco.co.jp tepco says: "Turbine building of reactor building water trenches ◇ pit (at 1 / 19 7:00)
Reactor building vertical shaft turbine building trenches
Unit 2
O.P. + 2,997 mm
(75 mm increased from 1 / 18 7:00)
O.P. + 2,983 mm
(Up 37 70mm 1 / 18 7:00)"
by Peter 1/19/2012 5:36:08 PM

Fukushima Diary Has tweets from Happy translated with details on the scope job.

I’m back Today was warm, didn’t feel icy in my hands and feet. We managed to see inside of the PCV of reactor2. The image was clearer than I thought. I thought the inside might be more steamy. That’s sad not to be able to see the water surface, but it was an improvement for sure. but I’m concerned about the radiation level.

The camera we used today can resist for 1000Sv, but even the camera got so much noise (the white spots), the radiation level is really high. At usual reactor test, we put water-resistant camera into the reactor but it gets too much noise when the camera goes close to the highly radioactive place called top guide.

If you put the camera at too radioactive place for too long, the camera gets broken. Today the endoscope became like that. To get more detailed image, we would need a more protective camera. It would cost 100 million yen to buy the camera what can get close to the fuel debris with color image.

For the next time, we need to develop new equipment. We shall use the same hole to measure the radiation level next time. We can’t even tell what to do if we don’t know the radiation level inside.
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 5:36:31 PM

I suppose this is the lowest water level.
by Peter 1/19/2012 5:36:41 PM

@Peter So it is not jammed.
by Pedro Jesus 1/19/2012 5:40:21 PM

interesting. kyodo has some detailed descriptions of the photos. will post them here.
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:40:31 PM

english.kyodonews.jp

TEPCO releases images of interior of Fukushima No. 2 reactor
Supplied photo shows the inside of the primary container of the No. 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, with the left side showing the inner wall of the container and the right side showing mesh scaffolding. On Jan. 19, 2012, Tokyo Electric Power Co. inserted an industrial endoscope into the reactor that suffered meltdown following the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami, in the first attempt by the plant's operator to directly check the interiors of the crippled reactors at the complex. Due to the effects of radiation, the image is blurry and has many spots. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.)(Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 1/19/2012 5:40:58 PM

More from Happy:
news under the hood like I was. I do that ... probably about 5,6 m of the containment. Kumokumo steam disciples. Dose not contain human dose disciples.
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 5:41:36 PM

english.kyodonews.jp

TEPCO releases images of interior of Fukushima No. 2 reactor
Supplied photo shows the inside of the primary container of the No. 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The rod-like object near the center is a thermometer and mesh scaffolding can be seen in the background. On Jan. 19, 2012, Tokyo Electric Power Co. inserted an industrial endoscope into the reactor that suffered meltdown following the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami, in the first attempt by the plant's operator to directly check the interiors of the crippled reactors at the complex. Due to the effects of radiation, the image is blurry and has many spots. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.)(Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 1/19/2012 5:43:10 PM

english.kyodonews.jp

TEPCO releases images of interior of Fukushima No. 2 reactor
Supplied photo shows the inside of the primary container of the No. 2 reactor at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, taken before the insertion of an industrial endoscope. On Jan. 19, 2012, Tokyo Electric Power Co. inserted an industrial endoscope into the reactor that suffered meltdown following the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami, in the first attempt by the plant's operator to directly check the interiors of the crippled reactors at the complex. Due to the effects of radiation, the image is blurry and has many spots. (Photo courtesy of Tokyo Electric Power Co.)(Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 1/19/2012 5:45:32 PM

the other photos are without explanations.
by Edano 1/19/2012 5:45:48 PM

I asked Happy if he knew the brand of camera they used. We will see if my bad translation to Japanese gets a response
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 5:47:28 PM

Continuing my thoughts on the water level, OP 3,000 is about the level of water we see in the wet well of the reactor drawing. This would match the lowest possible level according to tepco's measurements www.scribblelive.com in the shafts and pits to the turbine building (I hope I do not misinterpret tepco entirely) and might mean that there is no standing water in the dry well.
by Peter 1/19/2012 6:13:44 PM

Tepco Drills a Hole in Fukushima Reactor … Finds that Nuclear Fuel Has Gone Missing. A former nuclear engineer with three decades of experience at a major engineering firm … who has worked at all three nuclear power complexes operated by Tokyo Electric [said] “If the fuel is still inside the reactor core, that’s one thing” …. But if the fuel has been dispersed more widely, then we are far from any stable shutdown.” CNN reports:

Massive steamand water drops made it difficult to get a clear vision….

Given that steam forms when water boils, this is an indication that the reactor is not in cold shutdown. www.washingtonsblog.com
by MaryW 1/19/2012 6:59:13 PM

Think how much spent and unspent fuel rods are stored in pools of water at the plant. It takes only one other major release of radioactive material at the site and tepco must leave these pools unsupervised for some time. I do not understand why tepco has not moved the decayed fuel somewhere else yet. This should be possible at least for some decayed fuel rods stored at the giant storage facility behind unit 4 and the sfps of units 5 and 6. Tepco is walking a very fine line!
by Peter 1/19/2012 7:02:02 PM

i think this is the most interesting fact from the scope, that there is still steam in the vessel which means that there is boiling in the bottom.
by Edano 1/19/2012 7:02:38 PM

@Edano , actually I was expecting more steam.
by Peter 1/19/2012 7:03:09 PM

... normally they should be forced to withdraw their cold shutdown assumption now. still boiling fuel...
by Edano 1/19/2012 7:06:06 PM

Bo are you still around? There is an Atomic Age Symposium in Chicago in May. Looks like lots of Fukushima related speakers. lucian.uchicago.edu

Trying to find more information on it..
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:07:25 PM

i hope it is going to snow there sometime soon. We could see whether any snow cover remains on and around the three buildings.
by Peter 1/19/2012 7:10:46 PM

@Edano, true, something has to be hot enough to boil water to make steam thus no cold shutdown right?

@Peter, had not thought of that. They had a power glitch the other day that knocked out power to the plant due to a switching station. What if they get another nasty quake that breaks something at a switching station or takes out a transmission tower. I don't think TEPCO would even consider starting to remove fuel unless NISA made them but it would be a good idea to lower the risk factors. They could add concrete cask buildings on some of the higher land.
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:10:56 PM

@Peter It has been snowing off and on. Animal rescue groups have talked about it but I am not sure how much. I have some people I can ask.
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:11:37 PM

@Peter @lillymunster i think i remember a statement that the fuel in the pools would need 3 days to heat the water to boiling point again.
by Edano 1/19/2012 7:14:45 PM

... without cooling i mean.
by Edano 1/19/2012 7:15:49 PM

Perhaps (I hope) tepco is going to use that rail line lilly mentioned they bought a place nearby to move the fuel elements that can be moved.
by Peter 1/19/2012 7:15:59 PM

@Edano , it takes very little to make that happen.
by Peter 1/19/2012 7:16:40 PM

current temps in Fukushima are trending just above freezing. www.weather-forecast.com

Namie has rain and a dusting of snow predicted this week
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:18:09 PM

Who makes fuel storage casks?
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:20:33 PM

Beyond Nuclear and a group of other nuclear/environmental groups are trying to shut down North Anna. NRC is holding a meeting. People can only listen in on the phone lines
Thursday, February 2, 2012
1 :00 p.m. - 2:45 p.m.
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Commissioners' Conference Room 01F16/01G16
One White Flint North
11555 Rockville Pike
Rockville, Maryland 20852
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:46:43 PM

They have the spotlights out. One shining into 4. The other obnoxiously shining into the TEPCO cam pon.bex.jp
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:51:22 PM

Beyond Nuclear busts on the Frontline claim that no nukes will make Germany release tons of Co2 www.beyondnuclear.org
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:52:48 PM

If anyone else has seen the Frontline episode Nuclear Aftershocks do you have any opinions on the show?
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 7:57:37 PM

TEPCO Press Releases January 19 2012 We have provided a Japanese press release version of the instruction
document received from NISA. However, at this time we have reserved the
right to not provide an English version due to potential misunderstandings
that may arise from an inaccurate rendering of the original Japanese text.
www.tepco.co.jp
by MaryW 1/19/2012 8:24:21 PM

TEPCO's budget must not include translators.
by MaryW 1/19/2012 8:28:28 PM

@MaryW They won't translate documents they exchange with NISA anymore.
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 8:36:08 PM

does anyone have a link to the Japan investigation report released Dec 26th? I have lost my link
by lillymunster 1/19/2012 8:45:40 PM

@Edano That is fallacy. You can have plenty of steam without any temperatures close to boiling point. The water never boils as a whole at the same time. Particles closer to the heat source will evaporate while the overall temperature of the liquid can remain at very low temperatures. And as Peter said, at 40ºC we should expect a lot more steam.
by Pedro Jesus 1/19/2012 8:46:39 PM