
the contamination (radioactivity) of steel nowadays is so high that it is hard to find entirely clean metals. if they need completely pure steel (for detection instruments or medical purposes) they use metal from pre- world war 2 ships. very expensive.
by Edano 1/26/2012 5:59:44 PM

@Peter good point. Most of the massive growth in the US was 1950's - 1960's. Things began to stagnate and wages have been flat since the early 1970's. Most of the US reactors came on line in the 1970's.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 5:59:44 PM

NRC CONFIRMS ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN AT FITZPATRICK NUCLEAR PLANT TO ADDRESS VIOLATIONS INVOLVING RADIATION PROTECTION PROGRAM
The NRC’s Office of Investigations identified the violations during three separate investigations conducted at the plant in 2009 and 2010. In a letter dated Sept, 8, 2011, the NRC provided the results of the investigations and summarized the violations. They include: Failure by technicians to perform required respirator fit testing on multiple occasions from 2006 to 2009;
a failure to maintain accurate documentation of completed respirator fit tests during the same period; a failure to perform and/or accurately document independent verification of certain valve positions after the valves were manipulated between September 2007 and December 2009; a
failure to document a personal contamination event on at least one occasion; a failure to perform a contamination survey, or check, prior to the removal of an item from the plant’s radiologically controlled area; and a failure to carry out daily radiological surveys, on multiple occasions from
2006 to 2009, of a reactor building airlock. No health and safety impacts on workers as a result of these violations were identified
- Entergy will review procedures and share lessons learned as their "punishment" - via NRC emails
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:08:07 PM

@Ian this is not exactly what i meant, but impressing as well:
en.wikipedia.org even gold jewelry is contaminated.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:10:06 PM

Recycling of iron and steel scrap conserves raw materials, energy, and landfill space. Million of metric tons from both domestic and international sources are recycled each year in the United States:
www.epa.gov agmetalminer.comby Edano 1/26/2012 6:12:38 PM

@Will Oh your so right and I hadn't thought about that either. Fuku 1 - 1 went online in 1970 and was the first commercial reactor but by the 70's Japan was largely where it is now.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:20:06 PM

okay: this is the radioactive induction of iron: iron (Fe-59) catches a neutron and becomes Co-60. Co-60 is not naturally occuring and is radioactive, decaying to Ni-60 by beta decay.
en.wikipedia.org this is the "classical" way of irradiation of steel, like in pressure vessels. of course there are many other ways as well.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:20:22 PM

cobalt 60 seems to be what is found when they discover highly irradiated metal in consumer products like kitchen tools or the recent US metal tissue box holders
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:22:16 PM

@lillymunster co 60 was also detected in the air around the plants right around the meltdowns in the first days. the existence of co 60 already indicated a vessel breach.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:23:50 PM

Was there a particular article that started the thought about nuclear power vs. countries growth? This is really interesting.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:26:54 PM

@lillymunster no, i was bearing this thought in my mind for weeks. :)
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:27:42 PM

It is interesting, the big growth seems to have been post war up to about 1970.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:28:23 PM

@lillymunster so, before the nuke power time ?
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:29:20 PM

@Edano yes, it seems everywhere that embraced nukes and was involved in some way in WWII
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:30:59 PM

Interesting wiki on Japan post war recovery
en.wikipedia.orgby lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:31:09 PM

it is sad, but war always induced economical growth afterwards, due to the extended research on war important technologies. that is how they introduced penicilline to medicine during ww2. it was designed for the wounded soldiers.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:33:58 PM

@Edano much of the US "inventions" came out of war or NASA.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:35:17 PM

and some argue that the (US) penicilline was even war-decisive. at least a bit. :)
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:36:28 PM

the soldiers recovered earlier and the death rate decreased.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:37:02 PM

ronald reagan's star wars program was BS, but it boosted laser technology and basic physics.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:38:45 PM

@Edano penicillin was a huge medical advance. Now if we could get the kind of investment and effort for innovation put into important peace time efforts...
There have been calls for a renewable energy "Manhattan project"
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:39:32 PM

This is interesting and looks at the post war boom in international terms
en.wikipedia.orgby lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:42:51 PM

@lillymunster a brilliant idea, really !
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:44:25 PM

If the 1970's oil crisis impacted worldwide economies, why didn't the 1970's rise of nuclear power save all these countries from pain or did it cushion the pain? We were told in the US to conserve energy including electricity at that time. People bought solar panels, turned down thermostats and turned off lights. I remember high rise buildings in Mpls being told to shut off lights at night. They used to leave all the lights on in the buildings at night to show them off.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:45:51 PM

@Edano We have a set of problems here that fall into groups. Transportation - we are now utterly car dependent. This causes all sorts of issues from how cities are built to pollution, excess costs for fuel etc. Energy - people are realizing we need to move faster on renewables and other new technologies along with better conservation technology. Economy- too many people have wages that don't keep up with basic expenses so they have no money to put into the economy or to put into innovation, business ventures. We have a concentration of wealth with a few people and they are doing nothing beneficial with it.
All of these things would be solved quite fast with some serious govt. intervention. They are moving but much much slower without it as people find small ways to take it upon themselves to do what they can. I see it where I live in local buying and the local food movement.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:49:23 PM

@Peter with the help of marshall's plan.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:50:22 PM

we need a marshall plan for renewables.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:51:16 PM


@lillymunster individual transport was a big post war error. they should have invested more money in modern public mass transport. but oil was cheap so they invented dirty big cars. now we have problems to rebuild structures.
by Edano 1/26/2012 6:53:19 PM

@Edano At least in the US they abandoned cities and moved to suburbs. Many places are utterly dependent on highway systems with no option. Minneapolis finally realized their error and are now trying to fit a rail system into the city. Chicago never threw theirs away and have a decent integrated transit system that works. Where we are ditched the streetcar system in the 1950's and lost all passenger rail in the 1970's. I can ride a bike to get to the local things like grocery, post office, hardware store. Anything else requires a car ride on roads that don't accommodate pedestrians or bikes. There is local resistance to adding 5 miles of bike path on a dedicated land that used to be a rail line not for funding but mindset. There is still enough people who consider things like riding bikes to be anti-American..and I just want to smack them into the current decade so bad. :-)
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 6:57:22 PM

@lillymunster i have seen the suburbs of D.C., you are lost without car. and that means, 2 or 3 cars per family.
by Edano 1/26/2012 7:00:55 PM

bike riding is unamerican ? oh boy.... it's socialistic devil's stuff, right ?
by Edano 1/26/2012 7:06:17 PM

@Edano yep. Only hippies and commies ride bikes. Now fire up the Escalade to drive 2 blocks to the store!
You don't see this kind or moronic behavior in the bigger cities but we get it bad out here. It is the angry ignorant redneck guy factor. They see no benefit in spending money on anything. Of course they forget that things like roads, police, fire dept. are also the same kind of thing.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 7:08:36 PM

When I lived in Mpls I didn't have a car. I rode my bike or took the bus for years. I could bike ride from where I lived out in the suburbs to downtown with no interruption. That was back in the 1980's.
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 7:13:27 PM

The wiki on nuclear power is interesting
en.wikipedia.orgThis quote is rather telling
A cover story in the February 11, 1985, issue of Forbes magazine commented on the overall management of the nuclear power program in the United States:
The failure of the U.S. nuclear power program ranks as the largest managerial disaster in business history, a disaster on a monumental scale … only the blind, or the biased, can now think that the money has been well spent. It is a defeat for the U.S. consumer and for the competitiveness of U.S. industry, for the utilities that undertook the program and for the private enterprise system that made it possible.[27]
by lillymunster 1/26/2012 7:34:58 PM

March Nuclear Madness protests being organized in the US
www.facebook.comby lillymunster 1/26/2012 7:48:35 PM

The painfully obvious quote of the day: "Professor Masahiro Institute of Medical Science University of Tokyo on "food safety takes precedence over decontamination"
iryou.chunichi.co.jpby lillymunster 1/26/2012 7:51:33 PM

france GDP still cries about the german energy change and predicts blackouts all over Europe:
www.handelsblatt.com huhuuu :(
by Edano 1/26/2012 9:05:49 PM