Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 755

@Cat, my take is read everything and decide for yourself. A broken clock is right twice a day so even places you don't put stock in might have some factual tidbits.
by Nancy 4/18/2011 11:57:32 PM

I am a conspiracy theorist fully qualified
by elainekirk 4/18/2011 11:58:50 PM

I used to be called logical thinking
by elainekirk 4/18/2011 11:59:37 PM

@radioguy not sure myself on an unload but I see what your after. I think the actual date they shut down 4 is in Tepco' press release archive if you need an exact (and correct) date.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:00:56 AM

Radioactive isotope concentrations from Takasaki CTBTO station www.cpdnp.jp

xxxxxxxxx Ba-140 Cs-134 Cs-136 Cs-137 I-131 I-132 La-140 Te-129 Te-129m Te-132
3/15-3/16 312725 6921136 857713 5644666 14680552 11156850 1770189 2127038 22588878 27094139

Note high levels of Ba-140 and La-140 on March 15-16. Lanthanum-140 is the daughter product of Barium-140.

The SFD 1-4 test was performed http://books.google.com/books?id=SJOE00whg44C&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=radiochemistry+light+water+reactors&source=bl&ots=G6bRlsqMDp&sig=pUV6AqQJsVJh_c7aRfoJ9D7np-8&hl=en&ei=r6KsTaDJFMHDgQeAmsTzBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false
(pp.518-519), "high-burnup fuel heated to high temperatures in a steam-starved environment",
"a small-break initiating event with limited steam supply to the fuel bundle was simulated",
"the post-test damage state of the bundle... appeared to be quite analagous
to that of the damaged TMI-2 core". If a TMI-style meltdown occurred, using Dr. Saji's
inventory figures, there would have been a 23:1 ratio of I-131 to Te-129m released.
The Takasaki figures indicate a 1:2 ratio. The data do not support this scenario.

According to "TELLURIUM PRECURSOR EFFECTS ON IODINE TRANSPORT IN A BWR ACCIDENT"
www.iaea.org
"This study describes the increase in iodine activity released to the
atmosphere during a severe accident due to the radioactive decay of tellurium
precursors... here it is seen that the iodine activity in the atmosphere
is due disproportionately to I-132. Unlike the longer-lived isotopes,
most I-132 (half-life of 2.30 hr.) existing early in the accident will
decay before the significant atmospheric releases which follow reactor vessel failure.
However, the supply is replenished by the decay of Te-132, which is released in large
quantities from the drywell rubble."

Takasaki is almost 100 miles from the Fukushima plant. Thus most of the I-132
which was released would be decayed. The large amounts of I-132 detected must
have come from the decay of Te-132.

From books.google.com
(p. 533) "Upon contact, the molten core material (the so-called "corium") starts to react with
the material of the basemat concrete... when the reaction zone is flooded with sump water...
the highest temperatures might be reached...
the molten-core - concrete interaction is the principal source of the release
of the low-volatility fission products to the containment. The volatilization
of these elements, such as barium, strontium, lanthanum, and cerium, is
strongly supported by the gas bubbles which penetrate through the molten zone."

Note again the high concentrations of barium and lanthanum, and that of tellurium.

Conclusion: The emissions observed at Takasaki were not due to a TMI-style
accident, but one in which corium interacted with concrete and water. This emitted
significant concentrations of barium, lanthanum, and strontium into the
atmosphere.

This is based on CTBTO data, not Tepco data.
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 12:03:30 AM

grr google
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 12:03:53 AM

@elain I hoped the point that we are all voracious researchers wasn't lost. ;)
by radioguy 4/19/2011 12:06:34 AM

WONDERING.. shall we have a pool to guess when the fuel began melting in the cores of 1, 2 & 3....
by dean 4/19/2011 12:09:49 AM

The Tiger in the Air photo back there was a perfect summation of the slow reveal on this. Shroedinger's Tiger. Just like O'Henry's "The Lady or the Tiger. It leaves you hanging do you get to make up your own ending.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 12:11:42 AM

@dean A blind pool, since the odds of ever getting that information are pretty slim. ;)
by radioguy 4/19/2011 12:12:30 AM

@radioguy :) Does anyone know if they monitor tremors if you look at Iceland they monitor tremors hraun.vedur.is and quakes hraun.vedur.is the tremor posts around katla and on the fault line are all functional some not so vital ones arent. It gives a far better picture than quakes alone
by elainekirk 4/19/2011 12:14:08 AM

Have the images online of the pre-quake photo tour, reactor 3, common fuel, cask storage and various areas of the plant www.houseoffoust.com
by Nancy edited by elainekirk 4/19/2011 12:14:13 AM

@Nancy OH yes gonna look been waiting for them :)
by elainekirk 4/19/2011 12:14:48 AM

@elainekirk I have yet to seek out Google Earth plugins for the Japanese networks. They don't seem to use KML files.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 12:16:27 AM

@dean Me tired and sitting/looking (never lurk:) OK, Might have a guess if I knew the rate of heating and let's see.. need to know amounts and species involved or I guess they have data for this instead of starting purely mathematical. Well, ok, how fast would the little reactor of yours heat? (Sorry, tired, kinda clumsy way to put it. Just thinking out loud.)
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:20:42 AM

@Bobby1 With the measurements of all of those radionuclides from CTBTO in Takasaki, it boggles the mind to think what kind of pressure must be being applied for the press not to be shouting about the readings !
by Reed 4/19/2011 12:21:05 AM

@Nancy www.physicsforums.com www.physicsforums.com
Check out these drawings
by NHK Listener edited by elainekirk 4/19/2011 12:22:10 AM

@Reed Good point. The test-ban treaty people are independent of Tepco/NISA etc.
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 12:23:26 AM

@dean Seems like looking at the numbers, an experienced person could see it, and I do see things but I'm not always sure what they mean. Know what I mean, dean?
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:25:21 AM

@NHK Listener Demanded a login
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:26:29 AM

@Nancy Thought you signed up for that forum?
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:28:35 AM

@Nancy The links are in the last post on this page www.physicsforums.com
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:29:19 AM

@NHK Listener still need to finish it. were these on pages oterwise can try to get in in a few
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:29:26 AM

@NHK Listener I fetched the files, want me to post?
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:29:41 AM

G'night all I must sleeep
by elainekirk 4/19/2011 12:30:22 AM

@Jim Carver Would be nice if you could extract the pics or post the pdfs someway for others to view
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:30:35 AM

Diagram of unit 2 surge tank. www.tepco.co.jp
by Scilla. 4/19/2011 12:30:42 AM

Analysis of water from unit 2 Skimmer surge tank www.tepco.co.jp
by Scilla. 4/19/2011 12:30:47 AM

@elainekirk g'nitey. I'm bout out too. Looking for dinner get done.
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:31:29 AM

@NHK Listener sure
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:31:40 AM

@Scilla. Thank you @ Nancy you'll want to look at the diagram
by marie rich 4/19/2011 12:35:21 AM

@Scilla. Thanks, that is falling in line with what I am finding from inside images of the reactors before the quake.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:37:35 AM

@NHK I'm in, what attachments do you want me to look at there are a few on the last page.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:39:11 AM

@Nancy Last post on the page has 2 pdfs and a pic in it.. Take a look at the pdfs
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:43:15 AM

I must be on the wrong page: www.physicsforums.com
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:44:04 AM

@Nancy you want page 258 bottom of the page
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:47:00 AM

Oyster Creek Dwg DW Pen.pdf
Oyster Creek Dwg PCV.pdf
by NHK Listener 4/19/2011 12:47:31 AM

The question in that post are the hex or round. Round. ;-) Was looking at a reactor deck images of 3 with the concrete plugs in place this afternoon. Let me go find it.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:51:58 AM

by Nancy via Houseoffoust 4/19/2011 12:52:26 AM

I think I have enough to do a pretty definitive plot of 3. Still a bit stymied on 4 and the storage locations of the caps etc.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:53:49 AM

@NHK, is Oyster creek about the same version of a mark 1?
by Nancy 4/19/2011 12:54:51 AM

by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 12:59:40 AM

nope, hmm
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 1:00:08 AM

Thanks Jim. Any idea what version or Mark Oyster Creek is?
by Nancy 4/19/2011 1:00:41 AM

@Nancy No, not yet. That's the real deal though. I guess for it to do what I want, I need to put it in a web page.
by Jim Carver 4/19/2011 1:02:38 AM