Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 763

@ch Yes, i pulled images from that site yesterday.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 4:03:40 PM

@radioguy Were there really two explosions? Do you mean the fires? I've watched Unit 4 decay relatively slowly and know TEPCO didn't report any explosions at the time - just the two fires. I would love to know when and why the reference to an explosion at 6am on the 15th was inserted into the Fukushima history book.
by es 4/19/2011 4:05:32 PM

@marie rich Thanks! And if an explosion occurs will Europe be affected from radioactive particles?
by DT 4/19/2011 4:06:39 PM

Fukushima Iodine-131 Dispersion Cloud: Inland Blowing Winds To Affect Tokyo (04/18/2011)
Posted On Apr 19 And as the latest ZAMG data indicate, there could well be a spike in radiation of proximal cities, since the wind over the next 24 hours is blowing from the Ocean, as well as radioactivity over Russia, which will likely be rather frowned upon: after all Russia is now the energetic white knight providing the marginal energy that Japan needs.

From ZAMG: forecast I-131 dispersion April 18-21 www.infiniteunknown.net
by Tenzing 4/19/2011 4:08:05 PM

@DT I wouldn't know how badly it would be affected, but yes, everywhere would be- to some extent. But even the current 'worst case' isn't very happy. Looking at long term water seeping and vapor venting. like a balloon with a slow leak vis. the rest of the world.
by marie rich 4/19/2011 4:09:16 PM

@marie rich Re Unit 1. Note Jo's post from earlier: From last data update:
we can now see that #1 RPV is on the way to cold shutdown (if we can say...): it seems now to condense more water than it produces steam: water level has become unstable and seems rising, which is consistent with the temperature being close to the lowest boiling point.
Note that fuel temperature is likely to be higher that the data we have, then steam will sill be produced.
by Jocelyn Mayer at 4/19/2011 11:33:57 AM1:33 PM
by es 4/19/2011 4:09:33 PM

That's what would be good to figure out. Something blew in R4, didn't it? We assumed the R3 explosion took out R4. Since that didn't happen, what did?

Sheer speculation. Does it hold water better than R2?

There WAS an R4 SFP explosion, but it was an implosion... the building crumpling like a sealed can with a flame in it. The zirconium cladding had been burning for a while already, just forgotten there because the other issues seemed more critical. H2 and O2 formed in the zirconium and maybe criticality reaction. They had long enough before exploding, whatever caused it, to purge the nitrogen buffer from the air through the leaks in the building. Perfect mix.... the explosion caused a vacuum, sucked the wall in, sucking in a huge draught of air, as it's sucking the lid down on the SFP. Just long enough for another H2 buildup, and the still burning zirconium ignites and burns the lid off. The fire was there ever since the cladding ignited, and didn't quit except when it was covered, which was impossible due to damage to the R4 SFP.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:09:34 PM

@es What concerns me is that the pressure in the suppression pool should be higher, as the pressure rises in the rpv. I hope Jo is right, and she is much brighter than I
by marie rich 4/19/2011 4:14:02 PM

@DT Hey, DT. Where are you from?
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 4:15:13 PM

@es 2 incidents at 4. Sounds like one explosion and a fire(s) after the fact.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 4:16:29 PM

@marie rich Jo's a he :) Super-bright.
by es 4/19/2011 4:17:16 PM

Bobby, I'm from Bulgaria and honestly I am scared...
by DT 4/19/2011 4:17:28 PM

@DT It is likely that substantial amounts of Strontium-89 have been released.
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 4:17:48 PM

Nozzle temp on 1 appeared to bump up on the last reading, and water level has had only 1 measurement uptick (it's had the same previously). #1 core pressure is still continuing up. Overall temperature is certainly better than a week ago, but pressure and water level don't seem headed in a positive way as of yet.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:18:04 PM

Bobby, that says nothing to me... what does that mean?
by DT 4/19/2011 4:18:27 PM

@DT It causes bone cancer and leukemia. How much is unknown. I could estimate it if I knew the Barium-140 inventory at the plant.
by Bobby1 4/19/2011 4:19:35 PM

@Nancy OK, thanks. Whilst both fires were reported as they occurred, the explosion was added to the incident list after the fact.
by es 4/19/2011 4:20:08 PM

A total of 2 data points a day, 6 hours apart, just isn't enough.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:20:36 PM

@Markfm And they know that. And they've had the complete numbers all along.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:22:03 PM

Well... not complete, but it's an intricate omission game they have been playing. Almost like "What KEY fact can we fail to release to obscure this totally.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:22:51 PM

#1 had less severe earthquake stresses than a couple of the other plants, but still pushing things pretty hard. To me, if they cannot vent they must be waiting for a penetration failure, then it'll dump into the basement like #2.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:23:01 PM

When they couldn't add that much nitrogen to #1 containment it should have been a huge red flag.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:24:10 PM

@Markfm I cut out the cams from unicamp- look at how the radioactivity in unit 1 is increasing. 2011-04-12 | 06:00 | 774.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 1080 | 99999 | N089 |
2011-04-13 | 06:00 | 798.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 1040 | 99999 | N090 |
2011-04-13 | 12:00 | 804.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 1030 | 99999 | N091 |
2011-04-14 | 00:00 | 816.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 1010 | 99999 | N092 |
2011-04-14 | 06:00 | 822.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 1000 | 99999 | N093 |
2011-04-15 | 03:00 | 843.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 972 | 99999 | N094 |
2011-04-15 | 12:00 | 852.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 958 | 99999 | N095 |
2011-04-16 | 06:00 | 870.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 930 | 99999 | N096 |
2011-04-16 | 12:00 | 876.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 922 | 99999 | N097 |
2011-04-17 | 12:00 | 900.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 107 | 667 | N098 |
2011-04-18 | 06:00 | 918.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 100 | 330 | N099 |
2011-04-18 | 13:00 | 925.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 99 | 255 | N100 |
2011-04-19 | 06:00 | 942.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 98 | 226 | N101 |
2011-04-19 | 12:00 | 948.0 | 99999 | 99999 | 99 | 221 | N102 |
www.ic.unicamp.br
by marie rich 4/19/2011 4:24:57 PM

@Markfm That's all I can assume, is that they can't vent. Testing design limits (which are apparently a long way off, though pressure doesn't increase in a linear fashion, as you've seen when you try to fill a bicycle tire) on a compromised system is suicidal, so they'd only be doing it if the alternative was worse, or impossible..
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:25:00 PM

@marie rich It would be interesting to see how those graph.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:26:14 PM

You mean decreasing. The SC/torus values are trending downward, a good thing, Drywell was declared failed/under survey.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:26:53 PM

Rising but not in steady amounts.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:26:53 PM

Oh crap.... wrong readings. Inverse to pressure?
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:27:32 PM

I'm no nuke physicist, but I don't see 'cold shutdown' when you have so much apparent fission.
by marie rich 4/19/2011 4:28:16 PM

Washing away the radiation from the first venting, and no release, more pressure, lower rads?
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:28:17 PM

Smaller numbers over time. SC point A drops from 1040 centisieverts/hr to 99 as you go from 13 April to 19 April. Overall, something happened the day that the #1 drywell number spiked up, a day before they declared it under survey.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:29:16 PM

@radioguy they do the same thing with images and video. Release the craptastic version. We seem to be finding better quality media mysteriously showing up on other sites like Cryptome or YouTube.
by Nancy 4/19/2011 4:31:25 PM

@Markfm Then they achieved an uneasy control and (awfully enough) Reactor #1 ends up being the best of the lot?
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:31:52 PM

Look at the period from the second reading on 6 April to the first reading on 9 April (when they declared DW instruments under survey). There was a noticeable jump in SC radiation, then a day later the big jump in the drwell, then the day after that #1 drywell measurement was declared under survey.
by Markfm edited by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:32:47 PM

@Nancy I hope some is coming from the workers trying to slip the seal of secrecy.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:32:52 PM

@radioguy Either someone at Tepco or someone in the local media who has access to more files than the general public. Could be someone at a regulatory agency that has better access. Just glad someone is being honest with the world about the information so it is getting out
by Nancy 4/19/2011 4:34:04 PM

@marie rich Yes, but remember, "on its way to cold shutdown" came on TEPPYCO Bad Joke Day.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:34:11 PM

#1 is best for now in that it hasn't had as big an event occur as 2 or 3 yet.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:35:02 PM

@Nancy Me too, and considering the jeopardy, it means they understand how serious it is to risk that.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:35:06 PM

@Markfm Exactly... but they still can't vent.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:35:27 PM

Seal a pressure cooker, put it on simmer, and see how long it remains a pressure cooker.
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:36:08 PM

Are they HOPING for a burn-through to save their a$$es?
by radioguy 4/19/2011 4:36:42 PM

My vote is on a penetration failure before a head gasket goes. No flying saucer scenario.
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:37:39 PM

If they knock #1 pressure down somehow, say back into the couple hundred kPa range, then I'd be willing to break out the rose-colored glasses. (if they have temp going down, and pressure, sure, life would be good)
by Markfm 4/19/2011 4:39:52 PM