Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 811

@Paul Thanks , it keeps fooling me ;-)
by Majjham Zazen 4/22/2011 11:29:08 PM

@elainekirk @NHK Listener That's ok nhk, I'm all over, too. Check this out Elaine: Docstoc is a venture backed company (Rustic Canyon) and received funding from the co-founders/investors in MySpace, LowerMyBills, Mp3.com, PriceGrabber and Baidu. Its outside legal counsel is DLA Piper. The company is located in Santa Monica, CA.
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:29:23 PM

thumbs down
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:30:05 PM

LowerMyBills is a racket for sure.
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:31:03 PM

@Jim it is a minefield out there
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:32:03 PM

@elainekirk It is. I have a good nose for it though. Sometimes it's just the look, how it feels, ya know. If it looks too slick, I'm on my toes.
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:33:50 PM

@Majjham: Oops, tried to show the link literally in the second para, but the deliberate : in front of it didn't stop it parsing as I intended (hey, was that fixed on the board does anyone know? Sure it used to make the literal link show if it wasn't preceded by a space).

Anway, I see the parsed link works as hoped. :)

The one that keeps catching people is that Enter key submit. I have to really concentrate so's not to forget the Shift key with it! Ah well, keeps the posts short ;)
by Paul 4/22/2011 11:35:13 PM

@Jim I am a coward , if bullguard feels the need to ask me if I am sure I want to visit a site I always fear the worse and say no :)
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:35:56 PM

Found the right report. NO SFP temps for 3 & 4 but for all the others. Plus mentions of cameras and new sensors for both being put on the cranes. No heat images for days. www.meti.go.jp
by Nancy 4/22/2011 11:36:23 PM

So they are possibly burning ?
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:37:19 PM

@elainekirk I'm in the computer business and go there to see if it can do anything to my penguin :) So far...nothing in the ten years I've been using Linux.
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:37:43 PM

@elainekirk or overheated to the point they are boiling off water.
by Nancy 4/22/2011 11:38:09 PM

@nancy 20 mins to next shot @Jim I am just ignorant of all things technical but laziness nothing more I could learn if I put my mind to it ...I think
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:42:22 PM

I understand the western world putting a plug on the truth but I can't understand China silence. My be they also don't want the actual world monetary system to break.... Prefer take advantage of it :-((((
by Majjham Zazen 4/22/2011 11:43:37 PM

@majjham I wonder too
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:46:10 PM

@guys I'm gonna go scraping for maps and videos, any requests? I know Nancy wants some topos or even elevations if I can find them. Blueprints would be nice, do we have any blueprints already?
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:46:17 PM

@jim anything I can look for?
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:47:28 PM

Spotty on finding previous days METI reactor reports. Heat images from the 20th showed SFP4 to be mostly cool but the hot spot on the reactor floor or well was heating up, was 29c. R3's SFP was 55c the hottest of any of the recorded temps around the reactor that day. Boiling point is 100c. If 3's sfp took a turn for the worst it could have gotten hot enough to boil or evaporate lots of water in 3 days. People had been watching the hot spots on 4, hard to tell if the SFP or the hot spots are what is out of control.
by Nancy 4/22/2011 11:50:11 PM

@elainekirk Have you checked around in here? cnic.jp
by Jim Carver edited by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:50:16 PM

@Jim Carver no blueprints of fukushima. We have a partial elevation of fuku 1 and a semi-related reactor only piping diagram from a US mark 1 that is similar but that is it.
by Nancy 4/22/2011 11:51:18 PM

@Nancy I think on the Physicsforum we decided that evaporation wasn't enough, it had to either boil or leak.
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:52:31 PM

@Nancy K, those would be hard to find but I have an idea. Gonna get some maps first. The other could be long. i.e. tough
by Jim Carver 4/22/2011 11:54:28 PM

@Jim I spend many happy hours with cnic :)
by elainekirk 4/22/2011 11:57:44 PM

si.wsj.net
The operator of Japan's stricken nuclear plant let pressure in one reactor climb far beyond the level the facility was designed to withstand, a decision that may have worsened the world's most serious nuclear accident in a quarter century.

Experts in the U.S. and Japan believe the venting delay may have helped create conditions that led to the blast. In one possible scenario, pressure built so high that it damaged gaskets and other parts of the venting system, through which highly explosive hydrogen gas leaked from the core into the reactor building. It was Japan's cautious approach to venting, an outgrowth of its profound concern over nuclear contamination, that may well have made the accident worse, they say. online.wsj.com
by Rob in SF via Si.wsj.net 4/22/2011 11:57:46 PM

@Jim Carver would the temp be a gradual increase or does it get exponentially hotter or some sort of drastic upswing? Would 2-3 days be enough to go up 50 degrees?
by Nancy 4/23/2011 12:00:41 AM

Ouch...

Tepco spokesman Yoshikazu Nagai confirmed that if there is a risk of releasing radiation, the company doesn't vent until pressure hits roughly twice the design limit. "Venting is a last resort," Mr. Nagai said.

General Electric Co., the designer of the vessel at Fukushima Daiichi, said it is unaware of any such Japanese studies or venting protocols.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said it doesn't have specific guidelines on venting and doesn't comment on the appropriateness of actions taken in member countries.

U.S. protocols on handling accidents at similar reactors call for venting before pressure exceeds the design level. The same protocol is followed by plant operators using similar types of reactors in Korea and Taiwan, industry experts in those countries say.

The U.S. approach allows for a faster response in crisis conditions, and accepts the radiation released as part of venting as the price of possibly preventing a larger release.
online.wsj.com
by Rob in SF 4/23/2011 12:06:52 AM

Reactor 1 water level concerns

The Japanese government has expressed concern about the structural strength of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant's Number 1 reactor. It says the ongoing water injections may be making the vessel less earthquake resistant.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, is planning to fill part of the containment vessel with water to cool the reactor. www3.nhk.or.jp
by Majjham Zazen 4/23/2011 12:07:24 AM

@Nancy It's pretty linear in that regime. If I knew the amount of material and it's composition, I could calc the amount of heat going into x amt of mass (water). Since I don't have those numbers, I have to go with my gut and say yes, probably, because the mass is large (isotopes) and the mass of the water is well unknown and variable. And that just gave me an idea, they should have used ethylene glycol 50/50 antifreeze to raise the boiling point! But it wouldn't matter if it's leaking--and water would be cheaper that way.
by Jim Carver 4/23/2011 12:11:11 AM

hi to all
by dean 4/23/2011 12:13:37 AM

They should have thought of that.
by Jim Carver 4/23/2011 12:13:49 AM

@dean Hii
by elainekirk 4/23/2011 12:14:28 AM

Hi Dean!
by Nancy 4/23/2011 12:14:29 AM

Hi dean. Wouldn't be any problem using anti-freeze would there?
by Jim Carver 4/23/2011 12:14:48 AM

WB Dean..Care to comment about the huge amount of steam being belched by no4?
by Optim 4/23/2011 12:14:53 AM

@Jim Carver what about anti-freeze in runoff. It is fatally poisonous after ingesting small amounts. No clue if it gives off anything in vapor or smoke.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 12:15:32 AM

hey Jim.. hi .. that would be tons of antifreeze.. I'd have to check with our chemistry wizzards first
by dean 4/23/2011 12:16:19 AM

The operator of Japan's stricken nuclear plant let pressure in one reactor climb far beyond the level the facility was designed to withstand, a decision that may have worsened the world's most serious nuclear accident in a quarter century.

Japanese nuclear-power companies are so leery of releasing radiation into the atmosphere that their rules call for waiting much longer and obtaining many more sign-offs than U.S. counterparts before venting the potentially dangerous steam that builds up as reactors overheat, a Wall Street Journal inquiry found. online.wsj.com
by Majjham Zazen 4/23/2011 12:16:32 AM

wow the new teppy cam shot is....useful.
by Nancy 4/23/2011 12:16:47 AM

by Nancy via Pointscope01.jp 4/23/2011 12:16:52 AM

@Nancy Just minor it breaks down in the environment. Rel. small potatoes compared to what we're dealing with.
by Jim Carver 4/23/2011 12:16:52 AM

Optim.. something very hot and water.. very hot is fuel.. so, appears that by pumping or some change in the heat source (further melting) there would be steam
by dean 4/23/2011 12:18:04 AM

@dean Compared to worldwide consumption it would be nothing.
by Jim Carver 4/23/2011 12:18:17 AM

hmmmm....But if they were so hot..why din't we see sooo much steam earlier...SFP of #4 was not deemed that important by TEPCO officials to spray water earlier?
by Optim 4/23/2011 12:19:24 AM