Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 869

WRF/Chem E Asia radiation forecast www.rcec.sinica.edu.tw
by Bobby1 4/27/2011 8:14:44 PM

So it's the rock and hard place problem. You either vent (too late) and get a hydrogen explosion or don't vent and have a seething reactor that may blow up anyway. Takers?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:15:48 PM

@Jim Carver Wow.. I dunno... Aw hell, gimme seething reactors for 20, Jim!
by radioguy 4/27/2011 8:18:32 PM

That's too weird, I just typed.....I'll take nuclear conundrums for a thousand, Alex.
by Scilla 4/27/2011 8:19:26 PM

(hardly a fun choice: They're playing for time, hoping it will cool down before it goes. Quite a gamble, but it's only a gamble if you still CAN vent the reactors.)
by radioguy 4/27/2011 8:20:09 PM

@Scilla Wanna make that a TRUE Daily Double?
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:20:16 PM

@radioguy Tiiiime wehopeis on our side....yes it is...
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:21:25 PM

It was reported as daily double, but I have rechecked and it is actually a weekly double. Wait, I mean a daily single.
by Scilla 4/27/2011 8:26:49 PM

as an optimist I still remember that inability to vent is a self curing problem
by Markfm edited by Markfm 4/27/2011 8:28:35 PM

Water isn't leaking from unit 4 sfp. www3.nhk.or.jp
by Scilla 4/27/2011 8:42:20 PM

@Scilla Can someone with my math skills than I do the calculation on this? What info is needed? Water capacity of the SFP, minus items in it?, temps? Somehow it seems improbable that #4 was 90 degrees and boiled off 140 tons of water in two days.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 8:46:32 PM

@General Armchair So far I've got 287 500 tonnes total divided by say 500T per day = 575 days. I'd say were looking at 2 years under current conditions.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:46:41 PM

@you I meant someone with MORE math skills, and possibly typing skills...
by Nancy edited by elainekirk 4/27/2011 8:48:31 PM

@Nancy It can't do that because they say it's not boiling since water boils at 100C. And it can't eveporate that much so something is wrong.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:48:58 PM

@Scilla That's still a form of evap so ..and to lose that much it would have to boil violently. No, it's got to be leaking.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:51:49 PM

@jim it is exposed to the atmosphere would that speed up evaporation by taking the steam away before it condenses back into the pool?
by elainekirk 4/27/2011 8:53:06 PM

The SFP is the size of a very deep smallish swimming pool. They have also had to top up frequently when they claim the rods are cool.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 8:54:25 PM

@elainekirk Yeah it would help but, that's a lot of energy to be boiled away. It's just going in the basement. I think. But I need some real numbers here.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:54:54 PM

@Nancy They did admit there's a leak in #4.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 8:56:07 PM

I do note they have been injecting from 6 to 8 tonnes of water per hour (150-200 tonnes per day) into each of the reactor cores. No idea how much of that has steamed away and how much just goes through as water. Of course the rods in SFP are cooler than in actual cores, but there is more of them in the SFP than the reactor cores.

And if there is criticality in #4 SFP, that would certainly add to the heat burden.
by General Armchair 4/27/2011 8:58:00 PM

@General Armchair My latest conversation with dean, I guess we came up with there was a 'flash' criticality (my term) but right now, there is no evidence to indicate fission taking place at this time.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 9:00:43 PM

@General Armchair And R4 SFP has notonly the spent rods, but the half spent rods outloaded from R4, it also has 204 unirradiated assemblies, vintage unknown.
by radioguy 4/27/2011 9:02:28 PM

@e123 I've seen that chart on the #4 reactor and commented about it two days ago. There certainly is something going on there.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 9:03:36 PM

@Jim Carver I suspect lightweight chugging... less contained than in the core, but kind of rolling transient criticalities.
by radioguy 4/27/2011 9:03:46 PM

Question: If there was something hot in the suppression chamber would it possibly show as a hot spot in the reactor well from overhead?
by Nancy 4/27/2011 9:05:12 PM

@Nancy Right next to the RPV though, not under it.
by radioguy 4/27/2011 9:06:26 PM

The only way something would be in the suppression chamber would be for it to have moved there somehow, the reactor core has supposedly been out for a while.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 9:06:48 PM

@Nancy dean thinks there was movement. i don't know enough about it to say myself.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 9:08:11 PM

@Nancy I have been wondering why the reactor well on #4 shows up as hot (thermally) on the thermal images. I don't know how long it takes for an RPV and containment to cool to "room temperature" but I'd think four or five months would be sufficient?
by General Armchair 4/27/2011 9:08:31 PM

So has anyone been able to confirm if that crazy suppression chamber reading is a true reading or some sort of oddity like a computer glitch or broken sensor? I made a screen capture of it the other day also. Someone posted the URL and how to pull up #4 by changing the number of the URL so I saw it myself and know it existed. The guy in the video isn't making up the chart on the page.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 9:09:12 PM

@General Armchair There was some discussion that the lining of the RPV will give off radiation. It was extremely hot on a few days. So unsure. That high reading needs to be explained by someone.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 9:10:14 PM

@Nancy Oh yeah i've seen that chart and it hasn't disappeared I looked at it last night.
by Jim Carver 4/27/2011 9:10:53 PM

@Nancy The readings are SO high compared to the suppression chamber readings in all the other reactors, and because #4 didn't have fuel in place when earthquake struck, while all the others did, I don't think those extremely high levels can be accurate -- my guess is busted sensor.
by General Armchair 4/27/2011 9:11:43 PM

@General Armchair They still need to explain it. Just hiding the page is dodgy.
by Nancy 4/27/2011 9:12:32 PM

@General Armchair Best guess to me would be that hot debris fell into the open reactor well. From R3 explosion? No, we saw the R4 roof intact after that, but smoke coming out of it. It looks like maybe the pool in R4 was breached in some by the quake, and has been touch and go since.
by radioguy 4/27/2011 9:12:41 PM