Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 880

img.ibtimes.com spent fuel pool at Browns Ferry
by Edano via Img.ibtimes 4/28/2011 5:15:38 PM

I think three reactors there SRAMed this moring due to electric outage... its a bit ironic that a "Electric Company" has no electric!!!!
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:15:46 PM

@fitter It does seem very short sighted that you can't operate a power plant without an outside power source.
by Nancy 4/28/2011 5:18:01 PM

img.ibtimes.com open containment door at Browns Ferry. all photos taken March 25,2011. www.ibtimes.com
by Edano via Img.ibtimes 4/28/2011 5:18:09 PM

@fitter It is! I talked a lot yesterday about the easiest way to kill one of these is to shut off the power. one of the main things on my 'adgenda' is to push for more robust back-up systems. Ones that can stay on for days instead of hours (sometimes not even hours, it seems now that at dai-ichi, it didn't even work at all).
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:19:44 PM

@Jim Carver if they did have three scram today and we have surry's two last week here.. that five in a week and I think other have the last week during the storm, just don't have the info... how many do off line ? how often?? and i still do not know if the one at surry came back up .... looked on there web site this moring... and I'm 8 miles away.. should'nt take that much work to know if they are on or off... just one of those dumb public disposible people!!!
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:23:50 PM

@Jim Carver : i have a good idea: solar panels on the roof for backup energy !!! ;)
by Edano 4/28/2011 5:24:47 PM

@Martin That is called radioactive steam. If 100 tons go in, and 50 tons (estimats of pumping out) , then 50 tons became radioactive steam. The goes-inta has to equal the goes-outa in one form or another
by RBeaner 4/28/2011 5:26:25 PM

It was also bad design that the generators were not put on the roof or some higher place to prevent the possibility of flooding. It seems to me that if you can build such a complicated system, you should be able to install basically simple systems for use in an emergency. Reminds me of that hospital in New Orleans where they had the generator in the basement. Ridiculous in a city that is below sea level anyway.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:27:02 PM

@Edano I've talked about that, solar panels and a wind machines. Guess that looks bad..ha, jerks.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:29:30 PM

Surprise: Tepco Postpones Latest Plan to Tame Nuclear Plant, APRIL 28, 2011, 1:10 P.M. ET
online.wsj.com
by Debra Beckham 4/28/2011 5:30:22 PM

When I live in Delta Colorado, we had a generator from a locomotive that they used in an emergency. They put out a lot of power. Plenty for the backup of this thing. It's nice too because where you have tracks, it's mobile too.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:32:18 PM

Businessman sees fix, says a third option – foam dropped first from his aircraft and then pumped in – would cool the reactors and prevent an environmental catastrophe. www.santaynezvalleyjournal.com
by Debra Beckham 4/28/2011 5:33:21 PM

@Jim Carver wind poweer won't work, the tornaodes and hurricanes would take them and the solar panels off.....BUT we could get managment a crap load of bycicles that are belt driven!!!!
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:34:24 PM

@fitter My machine is rated to withstand 100 mph. It took the 60 mph we had the other week ago no prob. And if they get damaged, you just fix them. Solar panels are very robust also. I don't have any of those though, too expensive right now.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:38:00 PM

@fitter LOL

Could you guys pedal faster? The temps are rising. Seriously FASTER! NOWWW!!
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:38:44 PM

@Debra Beckham Sounds pretty screwy. I don't know why the planes would be involved, seems like a lousy way to get the foam into the reactor cores!

Also there was this in the article: "It works by creating a foamy layer over the fire or nuclear fuel and cutting off oxygen supplies from the atmosphere. Without oxygen to burn, the fire or in this case nuclear reaction begins to slow down and cool."
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:39:59 PM

@General Armchair Get the execs from Tepco and the government to pedal for 12 hours and give them 20 crackers to eat.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:40:53 PM

(continuing) You really don't have to be very far long with this stuff to know nuclear reactions don't involve oxygen....sigh....
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:41:19 PM

@Jim Carver Oh and don't forget to cut their pay by 50 percent while we're at it :)
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:42:02 PM

@General Armchair : ooops .....
by Edano 4/28/2011 5:42:14 PM

@Jim Carver let them have all the "plant water they want"
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:42:29 PM

@fitter And if they complain, just remind them that Rickover once famously guzzled some reactor water in front of Congress.
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:43:18 PM

@ll Pretty funny. So they really said cut off the oxygen? What a buncha dorks!
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:43:46 PM

@General Armchair did you notice they took or got a 50%, but the others still had to eat 20%.... proportionaly i don't think they should lose 20%.. for mangt screw up
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:44:04 PM

@fitter Your money or your life! Well or both, you choose.
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:44:51 PM

i am surprised at the number of people that don't know the differnce between a nuclear reaction and a chemical one. What are these people learning in school nowadays anyway. In my school they wouldn't let you graduate if you were that dumb.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:45:57 PM

@General Armchair Just catching up. Re the long and rambling TEPCO press notice you posted earlier - the gist as I understood it, it seems to mostly be urging an amendment to the recently published saftey regs to ensure TWO emergency back-up power sources are available for all nuclear reactor units. It's specifically talking about this need for Daiini, though note the interesting reference to recent events at Higashi-dori NPP which is used in support of this amendment:

"The Earthquake Off the Coast of Miyagi Prefecture occurred on April 7, 2011 and Higashi-dori Nuclear Power Station of Tohoku Electric Power Company lost the offsite power and emergency generating facilities started up to maintain the power source. Although the offsite power has been restored, emergency generating facilities shut down due to some troubles. Thus, it was reported as a failure to secure the restriction of operation regulated in the safety regulations." www.tepco.co.jp
by es 4/28/2011 5:51:01 PM

@Jim Carver @RBeaner Question???? what is the "leacking rate" of the steel/(don't know if concrete leackes) in the core materials.... in looking at the differeent info even thought they decontaminate the surface, the sub surface them leaches the rad out to the surface again.... but can it be determined .... how much and how long to until it get to dangerous levels
by fitter 4/28/2011 5:52:21 PM

@anybody Not to press this point to the point of boredom, but I don't think it has been answered. Does anybody know or has anybody heard WHERE the water they have been injecting into the cores was SUPPOSED to be going? It's clear it wound up in the turbine buildings but where did they THINK it was going to go? Is it possible (given the pretty ventilated conditions existing at at least two of the three reactors) that enough of the vented steam has been condensing back to water and winding up in the basements?
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:55:05 PM

@anybody Or has the "surprise" about the turbine building basement water been a Casablanca "I'm shocked, shocked!" moment?
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 5:56:46 PM

@fitter Concrete would have a quite low permeability, especially if not cracked or fractured of course. The permeability of steel is basically zero for our purpose. Is that what you were asking?
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 5:58:30 PM

hi to every one.. what's up
by dean 4/28/2011 6:02:05 PM

@dean @Jim Carver according to Tepco's work procedures...(may be inpart due to welding and cutting into the steel) that's one of the reasons they put the lead shield in one of the shroud replacement procedures and also one of the procedures has them welding underwater to assist in this matter
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:02:34 PM

@dean gas prices
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 6:02:52 PM

@dean hit the wrong botton on the last post... @dean was to say Hello
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:03:04 PM

@anybody More on the issue of venting and where it goes. There's a hole or open hatch in E. side of unit 2, out of which steam has been emerging from very early on. Would you think the venting would be to the inside of the outer containment? I would think in any kind of normal operation, you'd make sure that the ultimate vent was to outside, not inside your containment which you want to keep more or less clean?
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 6:03:14 PM

@dean son just called he got four alarms onernigth, rooms only got one and i did,t get any... don't think the ditigial computerized NPP inpress me.. i would rather haver anolog
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:04:49 PM

@fitter Underwater welding is rated the (one of) most dangerous occupations, but doing it in radioactive water...oh wow.
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 6:05:13 PM

@Jim Carver they use auto machines...
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:05:39 PM

@fitter o
by Jim Carver 4/28/2011 6:06:38 PM

@General Armchair are you asking where it is designed to go, or were it is going ...(best guess)
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:06:54 PM

@fitter Asking where TEPCO/NISA THOUGHT it was going to go. So I guess where it was designed to go. As far as I know, TEPCO/NISA have never explained exactly how the stuff gets from the cores to turbine buildings....?
by General Armchair 4/28/2011 6:08:29 PM

@Jim Carver but so far i have seen three different procedures for the shroud replacement at the ****ashima plant.... two were later years... one was not by TEPCO, but one of the design firms and presented at a conference in asia, in the late 2000's so i don't know what one they would be doing now, except the newest one was "cheaper" so take a Guess!!!
by fitter 4/28/2011 6:09:51 PM