ScribbleLive

@Nancy : i agree they must have specialists for nuclear emergencies, and they must have doctors in the army who can deal with radiation. the question is: why aren't they on the site ? the answer might be that tepco refuses help. they want to keep it inside. and kan seems too weak.

@Edano very likely. The resources exist. TEPCO isn't employing them.

back for awhile

@dean Hi Dean!

@Panserbjorne9 - now if I can just grasp the english usage, I think I might be able to understand......

@Panserbjorne9 what amazes me is that those qu's dont seem to be asked at the press conferences I've seen

@Nancy can you imagine? if all of us posed just ONE of the questions we have?

@RBeaner - You are making a rather grand assumption on what someone under extreme stress will or will not do. These are not robots. They are human beings and I'm sure some will, in fact, give up their posts.

@all do you you think it is abnormal for people to give of themselves? Happens all the time, especially with firefighters.

Asahi Shinbun: Core Meltdown in Reactors 2 and 3 at #Fukushima

Fun to see the spin by one of the MSM in Japan. Now they are all saying core meltdown, complete core meltdown, we knew from the beginning, we knew in March. It's hysterically comical.

Particularly hilarious is Haruki Madarame, who now basically says "we knew that", while he was the one who told the PM on March 12, "Don't worry, the nuclear reactor doesn't break."

Yes, there were nuclear experts and independent journalists in Japan and around the world who said it was a meltdown, and they were attacked by the government and the MSM like Asahi as "fear-mongering". I thought so too, after reading the entries on wiki on Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and corium, among others.

But it isn't true until the official, government-approved sources say so, and it is now, after more than 2 months.

Quick and dirty translation, subject to later revision.

Asahi Shinbun (3:01AM JST 5/17/2011):

東京電力福島第一原子力発電所の２、３号機でも炉心溶融が起こり、原子炉圧力容器の底に燃料が崩れ落ちるメルトダウンが起きていたとみられること が、１６日に東電が公表したデータで裏付けられた。３号機では溶けた核燃料がさらに下の格納容器内に落ちた恐れもある。専門家は事故直後から指摘してお り、細野豪志首相補佐官も１６日の会見で２、３号機でのメルトダウンの可能性を示唆した。

The data disclosed by TEPCO on May 16 shows that core meltdown may have occurred in the Reactors 2 and 3 at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant. In the Reactor 3, the melted fuel may have dropped to the Containment Vessel. Nuclear experts have pointed to the possibility [of meltdown in the Reactors 2 and 3] and Prime Minister's Assistant Goshi Hosono hinted at the possibility in the May 16 press conference.

　東電が４月１７日に示した工程表は、６～９カ月で原子炉を安定した状態で停止させるとした。１号機に続き２、３号機でもメルトダウンの可能性が出てきた ことにより、工程表の大幅な見直しは必至だ。炉心を冷やすシステムづくりに時間がかかり、高濃度の放射能汚染水の処理も膨大になるからだ。

According to TEPCO's "roadmap" on April 17, it was going to take between 6 to 9 months to shut down the reactors. The revision of the "roadmap" will be inevitable now that both Reactor 2 and Reactor 3 may have had a meltdown, as it will take more time to build a cooling system for the reactor core, and the massive amount of highly contaminated water will need to be processed.

　今回公表された地震直後のデータは原発内の中央制御室にあり、電源復旧に時間がかかったことや、記録紙に放射性物質が付着しているため整理に時間がか かっていた。公表されたのは、記録紙に打ち出されたグラフや当直長がつける運転日誌などで、大型ファイル４冊分にあたる。

The data disclosed on May 16 was the data right after the earthquake on March 11. It took TEPCO some time to retrieve the data from the central control room of the plant because of the long period of power outage and the radioactive materials on the recorded printout. The data in 4 large binders includes graphs on the printout and operation diaries kept for each shift.

　データによると、圧力容器内の圧力が、２号機は３月１５日午後６時４３分に、３号機は３月１６日午後１１時５０分に、それぞれ下がった。圧力容器の密閉性が損なわれ、圧力が抜けたとみられている。

According to the data, the pressure inside the Reactor 2 RPV (Reactor Pressure Vessel) dropped at 6:43PM on March 15 (JST), and the pressure inside Reactor 3 RPV dropped at 11:50PM on March 16. The integrity of the RPVs were compromised, it is thought, and the pressure went down.

　圧力容器の底には制御棒や計測機器を外から通すための数多くの貫通部がある。メルトダウンした核燃料が圧力容器の底にたまり、その熱の影響で機器が溶け るなどした結果とみられる。３号機内の汚染水からは、原子炉内の核燃料が損傷して出るテクネチウムなどの放射性物質も確認されていることから、溶けた燃料 がさらに圧力容器から格納容器内に落ちた可能性もある。
There are many channels that go through the bottom of the RPV [16 centimeters thick] to insert control rods and measurement devices. The melted fuel went down to the bottom of the RPV, and may have melted the devices at the bottom. The contaminated water from the Reactor 3 has been found to contain the radioactive materials like technetium that are produced when the nuclear fuel gets damaged, indicating that the melted fuel may have dropped from the RPV into the Containment Vessel.

　東電は会見で「プラント全体の事象を追いかけられておらず、評価できていない」と明確な判断を示さなかった。

In the press conference, TEPCO refrained from saying anything definite. "We haven't fully grasped the situation at the plant, and we haven't been able to evaluate it."

　一方、細野氏は会見で炉心に水が入らなかった時間について「１号機は１４時間９分、２号機は６時間２９分、３号機は６時間４３分と短くない」とし「炉心の完全な溶融（メルトダウン）の可能性をみておかないといけない」と話した。

PM Assistant Hosono said that there was no water being poured into the Reactor 1 for 14 hours and 9 minutes, Reactor 2 for 6 hours and 29 minutes, and Reactor 3 for 6 hours and 43 minutes. He said "We should be prepared for the possibility of the complete meltdown of the reactor core."

　また原子力安全委員会の班目（まだらめ）春樹委員長は１６日の定例会後の会見で「３月下旬に２号機で高濃度汚染水が発見された時点で、メルトダウンして いたという認識があり、助言した。１号機と３号機も、事故の経緯を考えると同じことが起こっているとの認識を持っていた」と語った。

Haruki Madarame, chief commissioner of the Nuclear Safety Agency spoke after the regular meeting of NSA on May 16. "When the highly contaminated water was found coming from the Reactor 2 in late March, we recognized that the reactor had had a meltdown, and advised [the government]. We also knew that the Reactor 1 and 3 had the same situation, looking at how the accident unfolded."

　東電によると、機器の記録から、運転中だった１～３号機は地震によっていずれも自動停止。配管の破断などの兆候はみられないとしている。非常用ディーゼ ル発電機も正常に起動していたという。東電はこれらの記録や地震計のデータをもとに、地震直後は機器が正常に作動し、津波到達までは大きな損傷はなかった とみている。（中村浩彦、佐々木英輔）

According to TEPCO, based on the records, the Reactors 1, 2 and 3 stopped automatically after the quake, and there was no sign of any physical damage to the reactor. Emergency diesel power generators were working. TEPCO concluded that all the equipments were working normally after the quake and there was no major damage to the plant until the tsunami hit.

Well, this last bit is highly questionable. Other reports say that the emergency core cooling system stopped working even before the tsunami hit, and that a very high level of radiation was detected at the reactor building of Reactor 1 on the night of March 11, too high unless the RPV and the Containment Vessel were breached by the earthquake, not by tsunami. (On these, later.)

@Edano Sell lottery tickets for a seat a the press conference and the ability to ask 3 questions! Give the proceeds to the relief effort. :-)

@Nancy ? what you mean ?

@Nancy great idea!! I'll buy lots

@RBeaner - My father was a firefighter for many years. During a particularly bad fire where an entire family was killed and he tried his best to resuscitate the youngest child(unsuccessfully) he finally snapped and, literally, walked off the job. Never went back. I do not see that as a weakness.

@Maureen Burke that's awful, but I can understand it. Gets a bit like that for people working in child protection sometimes

@RBeaner - So are you retracting your previous statement that "they are not going to give up their posts"?

@elaine, @veenie.. interesting link up there on the pinned section.. I notice how they cleverly put one chart paper together with another chart paper.. hmmmmm
www.tepco.co.jp

@Edano Oh no... Did the cores melt down in those reactors? Man, what a shocker. Who knew?

@Scilla Yes, we knew but now the Govt. admitted it.look at article below

yep I looked at the first on up there but japanese.. then the second one opened with English and the trial to explain what happened.. but, it sure seems to me like there are two charts.. put together.. take a good look at the units..