Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1226

"Tepco analysis of how long Rac 1 lasted
3 Hours, less then 180 minutes and it was in meltdown.
So an hour for the diesel generators to run out of gas, an hour for the batteries to crash, and an hour for the boiloff. So much for all those BS systems. SLCCS,
HPPI, RCIC, 60 minutes from blackout to boiled dry.
Look at the peak temp,
2800 C

2617 Molybdenum Mo 42
2996 Tantalum Ta 73
3045 Osmium Os 76
3180 Rhenium Re 75
3410 Tungsten W 74
3500 Carbon C 6
Mendelevium Md 101
Rutherfordium Rf 104
Dubnium Db 105
Seaborgium Sg 106
Bohrium Bh 107
Hassium Hs 108
Meitnerium Mt 109
Darmstadtium Ds 110
Roentgenium Rg 111

Only Tantalum, Osmium, Rhenium, Tungsten and Carbon plus a few
unstable elements can survive that (heat).

So all that shouting from the Industry Apologists (You know who you are),
that the reactor was doing just fine? Yeah. What I can't figure out is how
it didn't burn the bottom of the reactor out."

www.dailykos.com
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:14:29 AM

@Reed @All- question/thought: if things did boil off and melt through that fast... what is the possibility that when 3 blew it was China Syndrome? If the bottom was already water adn it was sitting in water, could THAT have been a steam explosion? also... could they already all three be in the ground and leaking into the ocean? that would explain levels do you think or am I just freaking out?? It has been gnawing at me since day one. What is the ground mad up of there? Could the tsunami have made some sort of underground cavern to be full of water for the corium to be in? maybe I just need to sleep.
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:18:54 AM

Here's steam shooting horizontally out of Reactor 3 from the video I linked below. First I run it realtime, then again but freeze and zoom, then run it slow (I've found an even better shot where you can see the reactor 3's yellow body and steam is billowing out all over it). Then I apply the same analytical steps to the big yellowish thing : www.youtube.com
by Ian 5/17/2011 4:20:16 AM

I think that even though the fuel may have been mostly dry it was still cooled by steam, steam is 1/20th as effective as water, but it still can cool the fuel so I think it was hydrogen that exploded. And I think it is still cooling the fuel.
by Ralph Unger 5/17/2011 4:21:52 AM

@Meretisa Was Fukushima a China Syndrome?
ecocentric.blogs.time.com
"
Anecdotal evidence doesn't bode well for how far the fuel melted: Tepco has been pumping thousands of tons of water onto reactor 1 to try to cool it—yet the water level in the containment vessel is too low to run an emergency cooling system. That means the water is escaping somewhere on a course cut by molten fuel--probably into the basement of the reactor building, though it's also possible it melted through everything into the earth."
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:22:51 AM

@Reed exactly. :(
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:23:21 AM

If there were china syndrome, the Fukushima complex would not be so lush green with trees. I do think that fuel is safe is in reactor building. Doesn't mean that it won;t get out of it though.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:23:24 AM

@Meretisa ecocentric.blogs.time.com
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:23:58 AM

@Optim I agree. Most of the fuel IS in the buildings, but I don't know that I'd call it safe.
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:26:39 AM

Lol..Safe is a wrong word to use in this situation.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:27:41 AM

@Reed @Optim what exactly do we know about the exposion at 3? it really doesn't look like the steam ones at the others. also... did they get boron into all of them or just 1??
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:28:11 AM

@Optim No worries...engineers seem to have forgotten the word when they put SFP's on the reactor's 4th floor in an earthquake zone.
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:30:30 AM

@Reed if water is leaking into ocean, why wouldn't the corium follow? or am I having issues with geography/layout of plant? sorry, am not techy and have been away a couple weeks from daily talks on here.
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:30:31 AM

There was MOX fuel in R#3. So all bets are off. I am sure they added Boron in that water. I think #3 followed by #2 are the most precarious. If another 8 EQ happens in FUKU area #3 would be the first one to destruct.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:32:07 AM

Updated US Embassy in Japan advisory
travel.state.gov
by Veenie 5/17/2011 4:32:40 AM

@Meretisa Watch the last Fairwinds video for the #3 explosion, and remember that corium is very heavy molten metal. Think heavy, dense, radioactive lava.
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:34:08 AM

@Reed I remember that video- there were big heavy chunks flying out of it- it was very powerful explosion. you saying that corium wouldn't be part of that? or that it would explode and corium would sink down instead of blow out?
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:35:18 AM

en.wikipedia.org This gives great explanation.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:35:41 AM

Why does the TBS Feed still look like this AM ?
by Veenie 5/17/2011 4:36:20 AM

After breaching the reactor vessel, the conditions in the reactor cavity below the core govern the production of gases. If water is present, steam and hydrogen are generated; dry concrete results in production of carbon dioxide and smaller amount of steam.[7] Is this why see small amount of steam from #1 and possibly #2 and #3?
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:37:25 AM

@Veenie: Just Fog..overhead conditions?
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:40:28 AM

@Meretisa I believe that the unit #3 explosion occurred in the SFP, not the reactor.
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:40:33 AM

@Reed ok. thanks. am trying to put it together in my head.
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:42:06 AM

@Optim wiki says "The corium was formed in three phases.

* The first phase lasted only several seconds, with temperatures locally exceeding 2600 °C, when a zirconium-uranium-oxide melt formed from no more than 30% of the core. Examination of a hot particle shown a formation of Zr-U-O and UOx-Zr phases; the 0.9 mm thick niobium zircaloy cladding formed successive layers of UOx, UOx+Zr, Zr-U-O, metallic Zr(O), and zirconium dioxide. These phases were found individually or together in the hot particles dispersed from the core.[18]
* The second stage, lasting for six days, was characterized by interaction of the melt with silicate structural materials - sand, concrete, serpentinite. The molten mixture is enriched with silica and silicates.
* The third stage followed, when lamination of the fuel occurred and the melt broke through into the floors below and solidified there."
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:42:22 AM

@Reed: TEPCO admitted that it was a hydrogen explosion..so it has to be in reactor core. That;s how hydrogen got into #4 too. Thru valves... They admitted to partial meltdown in #3 long time back and I am sue they will admit full core meltdown in next few days if not sooner
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:42:31 AM

oops... so my questions are: 1) if 2600 was melt phase then and Fukushima got to 2800 about how much core do you think melted?
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:42:57 AM

2) TMI 2nd stage lasted for 6 days, do you think we are past this or is it still going?
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:43:18 AM

@Optim Almost 9 hrs ....that's a first
by Veenie 5/17/2011 4:43:27 AM

@Meretisa: We definitely had first phase.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:43:27 AM

3) if still going it is in this stage now? and for how long can it last before full breach into basement and then ground/soil
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:43:51 AM

TEPCO admitted that there was a complete meltdown in #1 so core definitely melted down.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:44:28 AM

@Optim didn't the hydrogen have to come from melted cladding (zircoalloy makes hydrogen when it melts or somethign I think I read)
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:44:35 AM

Even if Corium reaches basement it will solidify since and sit there. I am sure the foundation is solid concrete which will melt over 2000 Centigrade.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:45:28 AM

@Optim so we just need to figure out how bad it melted- is it in bottom of reactor, in bottom of outer reactor holder-thingy (yellow thing) or is it in basement (green on that diagram posted earleir)
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:45:36 AM

@Optim what temp corium need to maintain to be fluid/muddy??
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:46:01 AM

sorry so many questions, but am just brain full at moment
by Meretisa 5/17/2011 4:46:15 AM

@meretisa : Corium is definitely not in basement of #1 since technicians have actually inspected that area. We don;t know about #2 and #3.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:46:40 AM

@Optim Yes, all 3 have melted down, but I'm still a believer in a prompt critical detonation in #3 SFP in the H2 rich environment creating the explosion.
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:47:11 AM

@Optim - wow, you really think that technicians have been in the basement of one?
by Lethbridgean 5/17/2011 4:47:55 AM

If a hole is in the center of the bottom, nearly all corium can be ejected. A hole in the side of the vessel may lead to only partial ejection of corium, retaining its portion inside the reactor.[6] Melt-through of the reactor vessel may take from few tens of minutes to several hours. So reactor core might still be partially intact and not fully molten
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:48:00 AM

@Leth: That's how that found that R#1 really does not have any water. They went in the basement and checked the water gauge and figured the malfunction. That's the TEPCO version... I don;t see how else can they figure out malfunction of water gauges.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:49:15 AM

@Optim You believe that corium was ejected ? Why ?
by Reed 5/17/2011 4:50:03 AM

@Reed: r#3 is really a mess..It is havily crubmled. It's SFP is destroyed. Too much radioactive water in it's basement plus MOX fuel. Geez the worst combination ever.
by Optim 5/17/2011 4:50:27 AM