Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1474

@elainekirk some of my plots have not been updated they still show the 11:00 data, but my data sheets are overwritten.
by Edano 6/2/2011 9:11:42 AM

maybe it is just an accident, but i will archive their data from mow on. they are really unbelievable.
by Edano 6/2/2011 9:14:10 AM

ah, i think they changed the encoding from ascii to unicode. very funny. but i go now. bye.
ok edano have fun :)
by Edano edited by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:17:00 AM

@elainekirk Since neither one of us make any pretense of expertise we can feel to just go ahead and express our thoughts--why should we be any different from anyone else on the internet :-) In re categories, seems to me 'Water' is a big one--what to do with it, for one thing, although there are many, many others. I'm simply unable to comprehend why they continue to have a problem after all this time with what to do with all the water that's sitting somewhere it shouldn't be, and they seem to spend their time pumping it from one too small bad place to another too small bad place. I don't get it. Is there something I'm missing that prevents them from bringing in, by Chinook helicopter brigades if necessary, giant temporary water tanks? Where are Haliburton and Brown and Root and the other profiteers from the oil industry when we actually need them--they've got tanks, many other people have tanks, what am I not understanding? So as a start on Water, there's water storage, water leakage, protection of water table and ocean. Seems like that ought to be enough to start with...! 'The easy we do right away, the impossible takes a little longer.'
by Mart 6/2/2011 9:21:59 AM

@Mart just as we speak we get more pics of the tanks I will grab a coffee whilst you see whats new in water storage at tepco fukushima www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:25:42 AM

i think that one major problem is that the soil under the NPP has not settled after the big EQ. and is still on the move.. there is strong possibility that there will be issues regarding sinking or moving soil. new cracks in the buildings foundations.. who knows what else..
by trh 6/2/2011 9:28:45 AM

@trh my thoughts too
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:34:30 AM

@all I just logged on. Are people thinking about solutions?
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:35:54 AM

@elainekirk Well, it's a start, but seems like all else, very little and very late. They need tanks that can handle HUGE amounts of water, lots of it highly contaminated. None of these seems adequate for what they have to deal with if they want to stop the worst of the bleeding from the site. This seems ad hoc and more photo op for the home office than it does trying to start coming to grips immediately with the much more major water problems they have. What kinds of tanks are needed to hold high level waste and wouldn't almost any non-leaking tankage be better than nothing at this point? They act like they're on a budget, doing the minimal to just be doing something, but it seems all at the edges if they still, after all this time, don't have enough water tight big hollow things to put all the water in. And they don't. And it's true things are still shifting but that's the hand they've dealt us, we've gotta do it anyway.
by Mart 6/2/2011 9:36:15 AM

@elainekirk in other words, they are moving every day closer to the sea level with their problem
by trh 6/2/2011 9:36:54 AM

I'm not sure they really send any humans in.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:37:41 AM

@mart I agree that we need to think about solutions. STAR Situation,Task,Action,Result
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:39:34 AM

So maybe I can start by asking people what the S. Situation really is?. And we work from there.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:40:50 AM

@AustralianCannonball We have S and T and we need R. but problem is the A.. they just cant manage the A
by trh 6/2/2011 9:41:48 AM

@trh What is the general consensus on the S?. Save me reading 100 pages!. I have my theory but I want to know what others think?
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:42:57 AM

to be honest I don't see any way forward that involves storing water in an earthquake region . They can move umpteen tanks onto that site but if the tanks ae full you will get slop because they cannot be airtight and any ventilation would be vulnerable , if they partially filled then shake momentum would make them topple. the only design with any merit would have to be a partial fill with a base much larger than the water containment and that just isnt viable due to space
just my opinion
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:44:08 AM

I'll make a video log of what we come up with.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:44:11 AM

@cannonball that would be good I understand graphic explanations better than text
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:45:47 AM

@elainekirk Is there a link to the S T and R so I can come up to speed?. I just want to be on the same page with the group.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:47:03 AM

Than I can ponder the A?!!
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:47:33 AM

@AustralianCannonball sry.. it was my opinion.. not the grup.. sorry for confusion
by trh 6/2/2011 9:48:38 AM

In laymens term the S is that the reactors have melted probably to some extent through the floor. There is a heap of spent fuel that they pour water onto. They keep pouring water in the hope it covers the molten blob.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:49:38 AM

and the we can add huge amounts of contaminated water to the situation... danger of overflow into the ocean...
by trh 6/2/2011 9:52:16 AM

Well, the S. might be, 3 reactors with probably completely melted cores, all fuel pools hot, some probably damaged, some filled with debris, corium creeping around and probably eating it's way through various levels and pipes, the building structures are cracked, damaged terribly and leaking like fish nets, the water table looks to be in jeopardy, there's leakage into the ocean, and there are periodic smokes that disperse radioactivity hither and yon, and nobody seems to really know what to do about it. Oh, and they're not being careful of their workers, to say nothing of the people of Japan or the international community.
by Mart 6/2/2011 9:52:37 AM

@Mart @trh @elainekirk @AustralianCannonball good morring to all..... glad t see some new folks, i have been here since we were rutters, don't post much more busy, working on items that can make a difference....
by fitter 6/2/2011 9:54:25 AM

They need to just bury it. But is there any theory o why not?. would they have to also entomb below the reactor buildings to stop leaks into groundwater?.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:54:36 AM

@fitter Hi, we are trying to work out a plan!!!
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:55:49 AM

i think they ruled out the entombment because of the soil issue.. it would not be able to support such massive structure..
by trh 6/2/2011 9:56:29 AM

So it sounds like they just want to pour water on it until it all cools and keep a leak going?
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:57:21 AM

Hoping for the best maybe?.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 9:57:48 AM

@Mart @elainekirk @AustralianCannonball @trh my handle is fitter for a reason, I have 35 years in Industrial PLant Mechanical instalation. We used to be much more pro-active and solution orintated, but the board has gone a more anit-Tepco path.... seldom is there a post without a "negitive statemant made attached at the end."
by fitter 6/2/2011 9:58:26 AM

@ elainekirk I do know what you mean about tanks not being a long term solution and I absolutely agree. Will ponder. My difficulty and perhaps better minds will have better ideas, is that I can't picture anyway to proceed that doesn't at least temporarily involve putting large amounts of water into tanks so that it can be managed better than they are now, which is not at all, of course. Or hardly. Yes, not a good solution, dangerous, but not seeing how to start otherwise. But as I said, I'm clueless.
by Mart 6/2/2011 9:58:29 AM

They have a problem in that they are polluting groundwater , yes they need to stop polluting the ocean and atmosphere but they also have to solve the groundwater problem
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 9:59:08 AM

@all Maybe some new thoughts will have postitive effect.
by fitter 6/2/2011 9:59:57 AM

So the groundwater issue is the "real issue". Otherwise they could of done a Chernobyl. I guess. I only work in IT.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 10:00:26 AM

@trh @AustralianCannonball @Mart I really welcome your thoughts and disscusions.. in regardes to TEPCO... not they have done no better than the BP spill, but I am not sure they have done any worst....
by fitter 6/2/2011 10:01:36 AM

they cannot get near enough to do anything they are monitoring the area around the units by monitoring car so what the hell are they going to do now , those cars cannot be going into the units so 2015usv/h is an outdoor reading www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 10:01:42 AM

@all I'll put this out to the universe. If you think you know whats going on email me on luke_anthony_short@yahoo.com.au All I will do is make a youtube video but I will send it viral. I haven't done that yet but I want to methodically put something together and get the word out.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 10:04:51 AM

I've made crappy unprepared rant sort of videos!
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 10:05:26 AM

good idea cannonball
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 10:06:04 AM

　A problem has been detected radioactive cesium exceeds the standards of the country from the tea leaves of 6 provinces, such as Ibaraki and Kanagawa, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio 枝野 July 2 also examined at the stage of tea in stores tea and rough dried tea leaves, raw exceeds the criteria are subject to stop shipments, said on Tuesday. At the same time, Ibaraki, Chiba, Kanagawa, each governor ordered the ship down of Tochigi.
www.asahi.com
by elainekirk 6/2/2011 10:06:22 AM

I've got a wife. A 2 year old, 9 month year old. Full time job in IT. But I can find the time to educate others. I will go to the Japan embassy in Australia if I must!.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 10:07:13 AM

@all the issues that they are up against is beyond the normal paramaters that any plant accident has to deal with... these sititutatins are difficult at a momimum and the are making progress.... take any job you do... say cutting your grass or cleaning your shower... if you have to spend two hours prepering to go do it, then can only work for 15 mim., then you have to send someone else into work for 15 min. so on and so on .... those "task" become quite a different thing.... now remember that sponge, water (can't go down the drain) etc... or your grass cuttings, (must be pick-up (they can't be left to go air bone) .... not a simple engineering issue there... NO ONE has ever done it yet! Sorry to rant ... and please do not delete mt post... thanks....
by fitter 6/2/2011 10:09:00 AM

here in Estonia very few people know about the problems in Fukushima NPP.. and it does not worry them much
by trh 6/2/2011 10:10:12 AM

In IT we break jargon down into info people can understand as part of our job. The average people need to understand this situation in a way that makes sense. I dont mean to offend anyone as I am guilty of it as well but tech people need to speak out and break it down in a way the community can understand. The community if pushed has the manpower.
by AustralianCannonball 6/2/2011 10:10:59 AM