Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1533

@Ian could they have contamination settling there? I am not familiar with the location or geography. But if they are in a basin or something it could be creating a hot spot. If it is that is really bad news because it would just continue to increase as long as there are releases. Someone mentioned the best time for a plant to make a rad release is when there is already an accident so it doesn't get noticed...
by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:33:56 PM

@lillymunster, @elainekirk Early in the Fuku accident I read a report stating MOX fuel was in the SFP as well as loaded. Can't remember if it was NRC,IAEA or which assessment report it was in and lost the report when a virus crashed my computer. I have been looking for said report ever since. Does anybody remember reading or discussing this? I think it was all the way back on Reuters.Is there a historical log from the Reuters blog anywhere? Since the media lockdown I haven't had much hope of finding it.
by ch 6/7/2011 8:37:01 PM

@Reed - the people in the region are not getting that information. We want it for curiosity, they need it to decide if it is too dangerous and should leave. I have not looked what things like americum etc. do to people but I have the assumption it is far worse than iodine...
by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:37:30 PM

@ch That is what got everyone wondering way back when, there were questions about how much MOX and where. If you find it again let someone know. What we have found so far isn't the end of the story, still trying to make sure we have all shipments documented etc.
by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:38:56 PM

@ch We do know there are unirradiated rods in the SFP of R3... or were... but what they were has been conjecture best I know. Documentation would be invaluable.
by radioguy 6/7/2011 8:39:10 PM

@lillymunster : it seems they loaded mox in the reactors that were not planned, designed, built and allowed to burn other than uranium fuel, but forgot to adapt emergency plans and radiation readings. i wonder if this happens all over the world. in my country, mox was not discussed, not to my knowledge.
by Edano 6/7/2011 8:39:16 PM

@Edano Walruses in the Gulf oil disaster plans...
by radioguy 6/7/2011 8:40:21 PM

Slap up the boilerplate, drop a new slick graphic on it. Done.
by radioguy 6/7/2011 8:40:53 PM

@lillymunster : there is a big lake about 80 km off plant. a good place to collect radiation.
by Edano 6/7/2011 8:41:05 PM

@ch you can go through the reuters blog I believe it hasnt been deleted - anybody know
by elainekirk 6/7/2011 8:42:46 PM

Found this link with much MOX info in it. Don't have time to go thru to find all the rports and articles found there- many ref. of MOX transportation and accounting of amounts accumulatedin Japan. Sorry if this has already been posted. cnic.jp
by ch 6/7/2011 8:42:54 PM

This from the NCI link "As explained above, MOX fuel, just like LEU fuel, can be dispersed in fine aerosol form in a severe accident with core disruption. One mechanism which has been under study in the U.S. is high-pressure melt ejection (HPME), in which the reactor vessel ruptures at high pressure after melting of the core. This causes the core to be ejected into the containment in the form of fragments, which rapidly heat the containment and in principle can cause it to fail, leading to radiological release."
So say, something like the massive explosion at 3? They really need some 3rd party testing in the exclusion zone and the nearby towns to look for those other contaminants.

by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:47:19 PM

The link I posted below has PDF copies of news and reports back to 1997 including accidents, criticalities, shipments, protests, regulation changes, shipments, as well as the fuel accounting. Hope this is useful cnic.jp
by ch 6/7/2011 8:50:48 PM

@elainekirk Reuters blog is here: live.reuters.com
by jt 6/7/2011 8:51:54 PM

@lillymunster : this could explain the difference in the explosions. very sad.
by Edano 6/7/2011 8:53:30 PM

As a first pass try searching for Japan_earthquake2 + whatever in Google.
by radioguy 6/7/2011 8:54:11 PM

That's the Reuters live blog.
by radioguy 6/7/2011 8:54:39 PM

@jt ty will go looking. Maybe the info reduction hasn't reached there haha
by ch 6/7/2011 8:55:15 PM

@lillymunster "They really need some 3rd party testing in the exclusion zone and the nearby towns to look for those other contaminants."
Yes, and that testing should have started on 3/11 and been a continuous data stream.
by Reed 6/7/2011 8:56:52 PM

@ch What is so sad is they even have an article from 2000 explaining how bad it would be if Fuku had an accident with a MOX load. This guy was also warning of the danger back in 2000 www.ens-newswire.com
by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:57:13 PM

@lillymunster : in #3, unlike the others, we had first the explosion, and then the meltdown.
by Edano 6/7/2011 8:57:14 PM

@Edano Are you sure about that. I thought they were saying 3 melted down in hours after losing cooling like the others did.
by lillymunster 6/7/2011 8:58:11 PM

It's the archive of the Reuter's live blog. I think they have kept it all. I started re-reading March 12. Jump to page 12. Makes interesting reading in the light of what they are now being forced to disclose.
by jt 6/7/2011 8:59:26 PM

www.houseoffoust.com

@lillymunster : yes nancy, 100% sure !
by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/7/2011 8:59:33 PM

explosion: 11:45 march 14, meltdown 21:45 march 14.
by Edano edited by Edano 6/7/2011 9:00:56 PM

@edano March 15 (Tue)
06：10 An odd noise was heard from around suppression chamber at unit-2,
followed by a drop in the chamber's pressure, suggesting the
development of an abnormal event at the chamber.
06：14 Loud noise left holes in the walls at unit-4.
Smoke was rising from unit-3.
by jt 6/7/2011 9:04:43 PM

@jt : yes, in #2, but were talking about #3.
by Edano 6/7/2011 9:08:28 PM

www.houseoffoust.com #2, to compare
by Edano via Houseoffoust 6/7/2011 9:09:05 PM

@edano Both #2 and #4 had simultaneous events. I posted earlier about #2 causing #4. Connected below. Bobby1 suggested #3 caused both #2 and #4.
by jt 6/7/2011 9:11:43 PM

Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute's Daily Updates : June 4-6 www.whoi.edu
by Reed 6/7/2011 9:16:14 PM

@jt @Edano Red-colored chunks of concrete around building #3, if colored by rust (iron oxide) suggest that there was melted steel in the building prior to the explosion.
by Bobby1 6/7/2011 9:17:00 PM

@Bobby1 But steel melts at a much lower temperature than that of a meltdown?
by jt 6/7/2011 9:23:03 PM

this is the report on the exact meltdown times: www3.nhk.or.jp No.1 reactor vessel damaged 5 hours after quake The nuclear agency also says a meltdown damaged the Number 2 reactor about 80 hours after the quake, and the Number 3 reactor 79 hours after the quake.
by Edano 6/7/2011 9:23:44 PM

we got sfp film from #3 #4 when they did #3 they did #1 did we get film of #1?
by elainekirk 6/7/2011 9:24:16 PM

@jt It's hard to tell from the crummy pics. But I don't what else could have melted steel prior to the explosion.
by Bobby1 6/7/2011 9:25:38 PM

@jt Either way I think the meltdown was much worse after the explosion than before it.
by Bobby1 6/7/2011 9:26:49 PM

@edano So meltdown #3, 21:45 march 14 is a confirmed time? And if so both #2 and #4 go off 8 hours later together?
by jt 6/7/2011 9:26:50 PM

@jt : #3 explosion: 11:45 march 14, meltdown 21:45 march 14.
#2 meltdown 22:45 march 14, explosion 6:15 march 15.
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 6/7/2011 9:29:10 PM

Here's why NISA visited DAINI...

"Did you even know that there was water in the basement of Fukushima II ("Daini")? And that water needs to be treated to remove the radioactive materials?
TEPCO fears that the power supply equipments in the basements may degrade from the salt water from tsunami, but if they have been sitting in the salt water for nearly 3 months"
"It has been revealed that TEPCO wants to release about 3,000 tons of water in the reactor buildings [and turbine buildings, according to the news clip at the site] of Fukushima II Nuclear Power Plant." ex-skf.blogspot.com

TBS Video of NISA inspection at DAINI... news.tbs.co.jp
by Reed 6/7/2011 9:30:15 PM

@reed that is horrifying but expected
by elainekirk 6/7/2011 9:33:52 PM

@edano #3 explosion: 11:45 march 14, meltdown 21:45 march 14.
#2 meltdown 22:45 march 14, 06：10 An odd noise was heard from around suppression chamber at unit-2,
followed by a drop in the chamber's pressure, suggesting the
development of an abnormal event at the chamber. 06:14 Loud noise left holes in the walls at unit-4. explosion 6:15 march 15.
by jt 6/7/2011 9:35:15 PM

@Bobby1 The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt, its solidus, is 1130 °C. Steel never turns into a liquid below this temperature. Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1492 °C (2720 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1539 °C (2802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1130 °C (2066 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1315 °C (2400 °F). 'Steel' with more than 2.1% Carbon is no longer Steel, but is known as Cast iron.[2] from wikipedia
by jt 6/7/2011 9:36:20 PM

timeline: www.nisa.meti.go.jp
by Edano 6/7/2011 9:36:23 PM

@elainekirk Now we know why they're still in cold shut down and not on the grid.
by Reed 6/7/2011 9:37:23 PM

@edano also timeline: Go to
www.gengikyo.jp

Download
Nuclear Power Stations' Response to the Off the Pacific Coast of Tohoku Earthquake

Scroll to page 4/27
March 15 (Tue)
06：10 An odd noise was heard from around suppression chamber at unit-2,
followed by a drop in the chamber's pressure, suggesting the
development of an abnormal event at the chamber.
06：14 Loud noise left holes in the walls at unit-4.
Smoke was rising from unit-3.
06：51 Confirmed conditions of 1F should be reported under Article 15 of the
Nuclear Emergency Preparedness Act. (around the station's main gate).
(Due to the radiation dose at the site's boundary exceeding the criteria
[500μSv/h])
06：56 The top of the reactor building of unit-4 appeared disfigured.
by jt 6/7/2011 9:39:26 PM