Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2252

@elainekirk , they do need refresher training. Garbled messages in the beef and food contamination doc you posted on the outset:"2. In 1984 the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP) set the guidelines for the maximum radiation exposure that a person should receive from all sources at 50mSV/year. ICRP set 5mSV/year as the maximum exposure from all sources." Is it 5 or 50?
by Peter Melzer 8/27/2011 2:10:48 AM

@Peter Melzer I don't know we have come across this before and the icrp seem to use both levels
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 2:13:27 AM

in the docs @lollopezz found is this one on stable iodine it is quite long but these paragraphs really worry me they seem to say you don't need iodine until you are contaminated

4. At present, there is no immediate risk of meal with radioactive iodine. When a large
amount of radioactive iodine spreads out in the soil, plants concentrate it in themselves,
then cows eat plants, and radioactive iodine is concentrated more in the cows’ bodies.
After that, concentration of radioactive iodine in milk and other food rises. The thyroid gland
is exposed to radiation, when people eat them.
5. Administration of stable iodine agent is strictly limited to (1) peoples who are assumed to
have high contamination of radioactive iodine, and (2) only once. Preventive
administration of the stable iodine agent without exposure to high-level radioiodine, might
ever cause malfunction of thyroid gland, and induce efficient absorption of radioactive iodine
after a certain period of time.
6. It is reported that incidence of infant thyroid cancer does not increase under the thyroidal
radiation dose of 0.020 Gy (ICRP Pub94) (the thyroidal radiation dose in Ukraine and
Belarus after Chernobyl accident was reported to be around 0.15-3.10 Gy). This safety
dose threshold of 0.020 Gy is equivalent to 3 microCi of radioactive iodine in the body. It
corresponds to approximately 7,000,000 cpm (counts per minute) in thyroid gland by a
radiation survey meter.
7. The Japanese Government has announced that some people with radioactive
contamination were detected through screening, who were then decontaminated and were
given appropriate instructions. In addition, the result of screening for the radioactive contamination indicated that no peoples living in >20km from Fukushima Nuclear Power
Plant had contamination. Thus, it is thought that there is no internal contamination, which
might adversely affect thyroid gland function. Appropriate instruction will be given by any
chance if contamination is recognized on the occasion of screening www.nirs.go.jp
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 2:15:08 AM

@elainekirk Either I am tired or those NIRS guidelines are insane. Either is possible. :-)
by lillymunster 8/27/2011 2:25:58 AM

On that note I am going to bed :-)
by lillymunster 8/27/2011 2:26:42 AM

@lillymunster me to sweet dreams :)
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 2:27:13 AM

this is complete BS . nite.
by Edano 8/27/2011 2:27:18 AM

@Edano it is frightening there is no wonder the people were mystified when we asked if they had had any they must have thought we wanted to harm them
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 2:28:45 AM

"7,000,000 cpm (counts per minute) in thyroid gland by a radiation survey meter" are under the "threshold" ??? 7 mio ticks per minute ? 100,000 ticks per second ? are they idiots ? zero count is safe, not 7 mio. what do they think the ticks are ??? it is gamma radiation, morons.
by Edano 8/27/2011 2:32:33 AM

every single word in that pamphlet is total BS. good night.
by Edano 8/27/2011 2:36:12 AM

there is no harm to the thyroid on taking a pill of iodine. never ever. BS.
by Edano 8/27/2011 2:37:35 AM

@elainekirk , NIRS is the equivalent version of REAC/TS in Japan, and you already discovered their stance on the problem. This deterministic fashion of looking at things must be cultural. This reads like a tepco pronouncement. Even if you assumed that their idea with sufficient iodine from dietary intake was true, how can you be certain that it pertains to everyone. How could you not check the thyroids of everybody who was near the plant for radioactive iodine? Postulating that everybody must be safe on the little facts they knew is preposterous. We live in a strange world.
by Peter Melzer 8/27/2011 2:38:31 AM

@Peter Melzer @Edano I cannot comprehend it and the fact this list it came from www.nirs.go.jp was in the symposium stuff makes international bodies icrp iaea look like very dangerous collaberators , I must sleep goodnight friends till tomoro
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 2:42:02 AM

@Edano , I thought you had to take these pills for some days. The evacuees should have kept taking them. If they had incorporated radioactive iodine, leaving would not have made that go away. It is a ridiculous instruction to tell them to quit taking the pills. In the US, they doled out iodine pills left and right as preventive measures during the Cold war. Had iodine allergies been that prevalent, they would not have encouraged everyone to stock them at home.
by Peter Melzer 8/27/2011 2:45:13 AM

by Ian 8/27/2011 3:08:37 AM

So let's see here: 7,000,000 CPM corresponds to 1.17x10e5 Bq. According to the table that Elaine once kindly posted for me (2).pdf , this amount of iodine-131 translates into an absorbed dose of 0.059 Gy in adults. Strange discrepancies!
by Peter Melzer 8/27/2011 3:21:34 AM

The fact that SFP4 is the least radioactive and Unit4 was the only unit with a cold core suggests that the much higher contamination in SFPs 1, 2 and 3 is a result of contamination from their hot cores.
by Ian 8/27/2011 3:32:26 AM

New editorial in the Journal of Radiological Protection on the problem of fear of radiation in Japan and need for medical professions to reduce fear of radiation: iopscience.iop.org
by Ian 8/27/2011 5:04:34 AM

Letter in the Journal of Radiological Protection : Failings of the International Nuclear Event Scale at Fukushima—the citizen’s perspective.
by Ian 8/27/2011 5:11:03 AM

New study : "Increased cancer risks from low-level radiation exposure within the TMI [ Three Mile Island ] cohort were small and mostly statistically non-significant. However, additional follow-up on this population is warranted, especially to explore the increased risk of leukemia found in men." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
by Ian 8/27/2011 5:26:41 AM

From the same Three Mile Island cohort study : "Elevation in risk was noted for cancer of the bronchus, trachea, and lung in relation to higher background radiation exposure (RR=1.45, 95% CI=1.02-2.05 at 8.0-8.8μR/h compared to 5.2-7.2μR/h). An increased risk of leukemia was found among men exposed to higher maximum and likely γ radiation related to TMI exposure during the ten days following the accident (RR=1.15, 95% CI=1.04, 1.29 and RR=1.36, 95% CI=1.08, 1.71, respectively)."
by Ian 8/27/2011 5:35:08 AM

Excellent, excellent finds, Ian.
by Panserbjorne9 8/27/2011 5:40:30 AM

Expecting a naturral 40% decrease in envioronmental over 2 years is too much. "Japan aims to halve radiation in affected areas over 2 yrs" www.asahi.com
by RBeaner 8/27/2011 7:05:35 AM

This fact "Officials examined samples collected Aug. 22 from four rice paddies in the Aizu-Bange area because low levels of soil contamination have been detected there." from this article www.asahi.com , worries me. Are we setting up a whitewash. Testing the least likely contaminated rice first! I wonder if this test result was before the outer shell of the rice grain was removed.
by RBeaner 8/27/2011 7:14:07 AM

@RBeaner I believe that you are right I know the pre harvest tests the farmers had a kilo of rice in buckets at their homes that the gov came and tested no processing
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 8:23:41 AM

that is not weather on the webcam www.tepco.co.jp strange indeed
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 8:54:35 AM

@elainekirk what do you mean ?
by DT 8/27/2011 9:16:55 AM

maybe doesnt show well but big stream of grey steam started from common sfp area
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 9:19:03 AM

from twitter I'm sitting at dinner with scientist who was in #Fukushima this week working with pref govt on testing seems 20k is and will always be off limits. Outside that 2 evac zones are now open for selling beef provided each cow tested rest of prefecture etc 1 cow per farm to be tested
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 10:24:31 AM

@Peter Melzer yes you have to take the pills daily until the threat is over. but they only distributed 2 pills per person and told them not to take them.
by Edano 8/27/2011 10:49:02 AM

@Edano the whole thing is criminal governments and agencies stood by and let it happen, I havent been through the other docs yet will try tonight
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 10:53:14 AM

the attitude towards nukes doesn't seem to play a role in the PM election. you can't hear a word of it in the japanese media. the topic is only discussed abroad. i think the japanese public is still not very interested in nuke themes or they totally leave it to the govm.
by Edano 8/27/2011 11:01:58 AM

@Edano greenpeace is hyping the fact that they are seeking judicial review in the uk of the uk governments decision to increase nukes without considering lessons learnt from fuku I want to know if they are that damned concerned then why did they back out of the Japan testing and global awareness raising?? I suppose it would be cynical of me to ask if monetary considerations were involved
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 11:06:33 AM

Nuclear issues emerge as key topics in DPJ race [27 August, 2011]: www.asahi.com
by es 8/27/2011 11:07:29 AM

@elainekirk realistic, not cinical.
by Edano 8/27/2011 11:08:16 AM

NSC planning to set evacuation zones around nuclear power plants in advance [27 August, 2011]: mdn.mainichi.jp
by es 8/27/2011 11:10:26 AM

Looks like Kurion's baby is working again, after switching pumps: www.tepco.co.jp
"At 2:21 pm on August 26, cesium absorption instruments stopped automatically due to the overload of transfer pump (A) for cesium absorption treated water. However, water injection to the reactor is continued. At 4:54 pm we resumed the instruments by switching to transfer pump (B) for cesium absorption treated water. At 5:45, it reached normal volume of flow."
by es 8/27/2011 11:10:58 AM

No quick way to remove radioactive substances from soil: experts [27 August, 2011]: mdn.mainichi.jp
by es 8/27/2011 11:11:59 AM

@es thank you !

On Aug. 24, Mabuchi took aim at the government's compensation support framework and said, "If I become prime minister, I would move immediately for legal liquidation of Tokyo Electric Power Co."

somehow, i don't really believe it. but Mabuchi is my man.
by Edano 8/27/2011 11:12:01 AM

@es setting evac zones is that the prefered option rather than sort their nuke industry they just plan in advance
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 11:13:14 AM

@Edano mabuchi here too if he said that we need tepco out of fuku at least out of control over what happens and information
by elainekirk 8/27/2011 11:14:22 AM

@elainekirk I doubt it's the single preferred option of many, but I'd surely want to know what the procedures were in advance if I was unlucky enough to have to live near one of these aging beasts.
by es 8/27/2011 11:17:09 AM