Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2356

@Edano yup same here
by elainekirk 9/17/2011 11:18:45 AM

@all Ho owns the health system in Japan. It belongs to the government or it is private????
by Majj 9/17/2011 11:31:03 AM

sorry Who?
by Majj 9/17/2011 11:31:20 AM

@Majj "The health care system in Japan provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%. Payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance programme administered by local governments. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice and cannot be denied coverage. Hospitals, by law, must be run as non-profit and be managed by physicians. For-profit corporations are not allowed to own or operate hospitals. Clinics must be owned and operated by physicians." en.wikipedia.org
by Edano 9/17/2011 11:36:09 AM

@Edano Thanks .A whole country sick moves lots of money. To open a small clinic in Japan is a very good investment at the moment. " .... In addition, 79,000 clinics offered primarily out-patient services, and there were 48,000 dental clinics. Most physicians and hospitals sold medication directly to patients, but there were 36,000 pharmacies where patients could purchase synthetic or herbal medication."
by Majj 9/17/2011 12:01:04 PM

translate.google.com
ikrockhopper Itsumi Kakefuda
All detectors for each of 97 control rods were broken but one, and can't tell the location of control rods.
by elainekirk 9/17/2011 12:02:20 PM

TEPCO scraps plan to raise power charges 10-15%

TOKYO, Sept. 17, Kyodo english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:14:29 PM

@Edano screensplatter!
by elainekirk 9/17/2011 12:25:19 PM

ikrockhopper Itsumi Kakefuda
President of Mongolia forbade gov officials to make any contact w/ foreign entities on the nuclear waste disposal plan.
translate.google.com
by elainekirk 9/17/2011 12:25:42 PM

When we see this video we understand what is going on in Japan :-(((((((((((( <iframe width="640" height="360" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" src="http://www.naturalnews.tv/e.asp?v=13EAAF22CDA367BB3C2F94D2CD90EF7B&s=1"></iframe>
by Majj 9/17/2011 12:27:03 PM

naturalnews.tv
by Majj 9/17/2011 12:27:29 PM

Morning all (afternoon-evening) those readings at 3 are concerning. Do we know water injection rates.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:45:52 PM

@lillymunster

TEPCO injecting more water into 2 reactors

The operator of the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is injecting more water into 2 of the plant's reactors in an attempt to lower their temperatures below 100 degrees Celsius.

As of 5 AM Friday, the bottom of No.2 reactor measured 114.1 degrees Celsius and that of the No.3 reactor 103.3 degrees. The temperature at the No.1 reactor was 85.3 degrees.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, has been injecting water continuously into the 3 reactors since the March accident. The utility is aiming at a cold shutdown of all reactors by January next year, with stable temperatures below 100 degrees.

Earlier this month, TEPCO began boosting injections of cooling water into the No.2 and No.3 reactors by using overhead pipes in addition to the pipes on the reactors' sides, to see if this would help lower temperatures.

As the new method showed some benefits, TEPCO began on Friday afternoon to increase the water flow by one ton to a total of 7 tons per hour for the No.2 reactor, and by 5 tons to 12 tons per hour for the No.3 reactor.

The company says it will continue monitoring temperatures and make adjustments as necessary. It also indicated it may inject more water into the relatively stable No.1 reactor.

Friday, September 16, 2011 18:07 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:47:06 PM

@Edano, that does not bode well. I wonder if yesterday's shaking shifted something.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:48:12 PM

@lillymunster again we see increased water injection and dropping water levels.
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:48:21 PM

@Edano that is what makes me wonder if something broke open and isn't keeping the water in place
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:49:27 PM

the shaking wasn't really heavy at fuku. a 2 seismic intensity.
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:51:45 PM

@Edano, I just noticed something looking at the elevation drawing of the containment. Remember discussing the bottom and if it is round and dips down in following the curve of the bulb? I just realized what is at that line level I thought was concrete. That is the access door. I think that actually is flat concrete across that level. If it is then corium would have a chance to move laterally. I will start looking for inner containment photos later today and see if we can find something to give some hints.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:53:43 PM

@Edano those are big water drops. They seemed really confident they were below 100 degrees. This new watering should be working better vs. the other way.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:54:47 PM

@lillymunster i think the inner bottom of the bulb is horizontal, from the drawings. they leveled it out with concrete.
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:56:06 PM

@lillymunster the new watering system does not seem to work in #2.
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:56:47 PM

@lillymunster , good morning everybody, remember we discussed this study on radiation embrittlement and aging of pcvs here not long ago? At such high rad levels the aging process must be accelerated. I believe edano's hypothesis on ground motion-related corium shake ups is valid, and because of the accelerated fatigue of the components around it, the stability of the situation may deteriorate in the coming months. Didn't tepco announce that they plan to scope the rpvs in two years? They know why they wish to wait that long.
by Peter 9/17/2011 12:58:20 PM

but even if the floor is horizontal, the torus connectors are still higher than floor level.
by Edano 9/17/2011 12:58:29 PM

@Edano That puts an almost horizontal plane to the tubes into the torus. After looking at all those Chernobyl images yesterday I think corium going into the torus at least in small offshoots is possible. That could explain some of the post quake steam shows at 3. If bits dropped down into whatever water collected there it wouldn't take much corium to set off bunches of steam. upload.wikimedia.org
by lillymunster via Upload.wikimedia.org 9/17/2011 12:58:36 PM

@Edano but the bottom of that tube is about floor level, not much to burn through there.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 12:59:33 PM

@Edano , exactly, the same aging study mentions that the pcv bottom of a Mark I containment is leveled with concrete. The skirt supporting the rpv sits on that platform. The tepco diagrams showing the water leves in the pcv and torus are mistleading.

by Peter 9/17/2011 1:00:54 PM

@Peter I wish they would try some of the lateral boring to get a camera in there. Knowing even in a vague sense what they are dealing with would be huge right now.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 1:01:03 PM

@Peter is the rpv carrying skirt a closed ring ?
by Edano 9/17/2011 1:02:35 PM

@lillymunster , that is one observation I also made. The concrete under the location of the rpv is very thick (I remember seven meters), whereas the thickness of the concrete under the torus seems a fifth to a third of that.
by Peter 9/17/2011 1:03:23 PM

This image of the torus, the bottom of that pipe as it connects into containment is about floor level. Looking at the other side there isn't much to stop anything. Concrete on that edge where the torus connects in isn't very thick and also the concrete below the torus area is not very thick. I think this is a fatal design flaw. www.nucleartourist.com
by lillymunster via Nucleartourist 9/17/2011 1:05:00 PM

@Edano , I am not sure whether it is entirely closed. I thought I saw holes in it. The must be able to do maintenance to control rod drives and such that are installed under the rpv.
by Peter 9/17/2011 1:05:29 PM

this one shows orientation better 4.bp.blogspot.com
by lillymunster via 4.bp.blogspot 9/17/2011 1:06:15 PM

@Peter There has to be at least access into that area as you said for control rod equipment. Maybe I can find a good BWR model with that detail
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 1:08:09 PM

Not sure if this is very accurate but... modernsurvivalblog.com
by lillymunster via Modernsurvivalblog 9/17/2011 1:10:20 PM

i hope the walls of this structure (is it the suppression pool/chamber ?) is thick enough to withstand quakes and the acid corium atmosphere in there.
by Edano 9/17/2011 1:10:47 PM

ok, it looks quite massive. we don't want to see a falling pressure vessel.
by Edano 9/17/2011 1:12:00 PM

@lillymunster , there we go. Ditto, edano. If corium reached the torus bottom, it sure does not have much to burn through. Telling from their diagrams, tepco may believe that water is filling the bottom of the pcv and that the torus is entirely full. Who knows?
by Peter 9/17/2011 1:12:27 PM

@Edano the side wall of the supression chamber are really thin. The floor is not very thick. I could see sideways corium out that side wall if enough would flow into the supression chamber
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 1:13:05 PM

by lillymunster 9/17/2011 1:14:25 PM

I have to run to the farmers market. When I return I will start working on something (illustrations) using the BWR diagrams and the Chernobyl corium photos to explain potential paths. Will post here for review and changes/additions once I get it put together.
by lillymunster 9/17/2011 1:15:37 PM

@lillymunster you always get the original picture by clicking on the link below ! :) ;)
by Edano 9/17/2011 1:25:48 PM

To round the thoughts up, before I must, too, and embark on a trip to the farmer's market. As much as I can see tepco's proposed plan for fuel recovery is an exact copy of the TMI playbook. Only they will be surprised, how little fuel they shall find in the rpvs. In addition, one distinct difference from TMI is that after that accident the operators were able to re-establish sufficient and stable coolant injection. Considering the wacky cooling loops that Tepco was able to implement to date, the operators may not possess the luxury of TMI.
by Peter 9/17/2011 1:31:39 PM

@Peter I think you are right there
by elainekirk 9/17/2011 1:38:58 PM

This video was posted last night but the host deleted within hours of my inquiry for further details. I believe it may show the plume of the Unit 4 explosion. Read its description for further details on why. If we could pinpoint the location of this store, we might glean insight into the plume path of Unit 4 and thus what areas of contamination might correspond to Unit 4's explosion.
by Ian 9/17/2011 1:43:50 PM