Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2558

by Edano via Geigercounter.org 10/26/2011 4:57:02 PM

@Edano So if we can determine what xenon types are being found and follow the potential sources that created them (plutonium, uranium etc) we might be able to get a clue if some of the other isotopes are being reported right but would require knowing what type of xenon is in question
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 4:58:57 PM

@lillymunster yes, but i would not write about it before asking an expert on this. :) there is alpha and beta decay which leads to different byproducts ...
by Edano 10/26/2011 5:00:55 PM

@Edano @Edano right. I think we would need assistance from someone with more experience on the deep details of how this works. If Xe-131 is in question it has a long enough half life to detect it still Of known isomers, the longest-lived is 131mXe with a half-life of 11.934 days en.wikipedia.org
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 5:03:39 PM

fukushima.physikblog.eu
this is the "famous" meti list from my stuck post ...
by Edano via Fukushima.physikblog.eu 10/26/2011 5:08:46 PM

by Edano via Upload.wikimedia.org 10/26/2011 5:12:48 PM

www.grs.de
www.grs.de
the fission products iodine, cesium, xenon, .... are normally contained within the fuel. they are emitted when the circonium cladding gets damaged.
by Edano via Grs.de 10/26/2011 5:38:48 PM

by Edano via Kernfragen.de 10/26/2011 5:49:28 PM

english.kyodonews.jp

Storage place of debris from March 11 disaster
Environment Minister Goshi Hosono (L) visits a temporary storage place for debris created by the March 11 earthquake and tsunami disaster at Fujiwara Pier in Miyako, Iwate Prefecture, on Oct. 8, 2011. (Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 10/26/2011 5:54:41 PM

Raw Fuku data for spread sheets www.nnsa.energy.gov posted by the certainly trustworthy US Dept of Energy, ahem, but nonetheless potentially useful for serious researchers.
by Ian 10/26/2011 6:10:04 PM

@Ian I would be less worried about data reliability from the DOE than if it was from the NRC. Jaczko would have to check with his bosses at Entergy and Areva before he could release anything....
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 6:12:43 PM

@Ian just looked at the DOE page. This looks like it might be the data from the field team they sent to Japan. This might actually be useful new data. Meanwhile the NRC will tell us how nobody has died, radiation doesn't exist and they are really raising puppies and kittens at the plant. Why yes the NRC is on my list this week! :-)
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 6:14:47 PM

TEPCO's Compensation for Bamboo Shoot Farmer in Ibaraki Prefecture: 333 Yen - ex-skf.blogspot.com
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 6:30:11 PM

@tippytoe that converts to $4.37 WTH?
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 6:34:13 PM

@tippytoe oh that is insulting tepco management should be brought out in public and ....
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 7:11:08 PM

@elainekirk I was thinking torches and pitchforks with a side of tar and feathers....
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 7:12:45 PM

@lillymunster they should be given housing in the oh-so-safe 20-30 zone that families are living in , they should have a member of management live in each town and village in that zone, and the mayors etc should live in them too instead of governing from afar
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 7:18:25 PM

@lillymunster, @elainekirk... I agree. There is a high degree of criminality going on here.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 7:19:48 PM

@tippytoe I keep hoping the Bar Association will kick things into gear and start filing lawsuits for people in large numbers. I keep looking at that and it is just so blatantly cruel and arrogant.
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 7:21:24 PM

Tepco Backs Down On Compensation Exclusion For Tourism Industry e.nikkei.com
by Edano 10/26/2011 7:24:06 PM

@tippytoe I really want to see the peoples story get out into the world I don't know how to make people listen but I sure as hell ain't gonna give up until they do
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 7:24:47 PM

@lilymunster, I also hold out hope that something along those lines will happen. However, I think the reality of the situation is that the line between TEPCO and the JGov is a very thin one, so you will not see the gov't spearhead any actions.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 7:25:21 PM

there is a new wikipedia article: Japanese reaction to Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster
by Edano 10/26/2011 7:30:46 PM

@elainekirk, this story definitely needs to be told. I'm pretty sure things would be worse if they happened in the United States. I heard Arnie Gundersen mention in one of his videos that each individual Nuclear Power Plant is allowed to operate as an Independent LLC (Limited Liability Company). So if one of Exelon's plants melted down damages could only be sought from the from the individual plant, not the parent company as a whole. Could you imagine if that was the case in Japan?
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 7:36:18 PM

@tippytoe yes I can
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 7:39:42 PM

@tippytoe I was reading a Japan Focus article recently. It talked about the war victims, those that were injured in the bombings, those that lost a family breadwinner in the war, orphans. These people were getting no help from the government and lived horribly deprived lives for years. I see parallels in some ways today as those injured and without the financial means are being just ground up by an uncaring system.
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 7:42:15 PM

@lilymunster, it's tragic and unsettling. I think the reality is that nobody can fix what happened at Fukushima, and attempts to would lead to bankruptcy and nobody is willing to accept that. If TEPCO attempts to compensate it would be immediate bankruptcy. If the Jgov comes in to help bail them out, probably the same thing. So, they are doing the only thing they can do. Raise the "safe levels" so high almost nobody has to relocate and all the food is safe.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:01:35 PM

I do wonder if some chernobyl zone residents would be willing to speak out, to say look, this is our lives, you are seeing the fuku 'safe' zone residents in 30yrs time, no jobs, poor health, ignored by wider society . Doing that would be a two way street because it would draw attention to their plight too
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 8:08:18 PM

@tippytoe there are some things the govt. could do to try to make things easier on people but they would have to admit the dire nature of the problem. They could establish something that prevents creditors from hounding people who lost everything. There are lots of instances of people going home or staying because of mortgages or business loans. There are areas of Japan with lots of empty housing and dwindling villages. They could help people get a fresh start there and do something to spur jobs in those areas. It would probably take less money than compensating everyone. Though I think full compensation in the only reasonable action. I think Japan has realized nobody has enough cash to cover a nuclear disaster. Germany figured this out. Other countries need to figure this out. I think such a disaster would bankrupt most countries so instead they screw over the victims.
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 8:08:22 PM

Just wondering if anyone knows the law off hand that allows individual power plants are owned as LLCs in the United States, even if they are operated by a larger parent company. This to me is a huge deal. If you look at Entergy for example. They operate Vermont Yankee, Palisades Nuclear Station, etc. But if you look at each of these plants they are owned as LLCs -- Entergy Nuclear Vermont Yankee, LLC and Entergy Nuclear Palisades, LLC respectively. This is huge as it protects Entergy from having to pay any damages beyond what the individual plant is worth. The system is essentially already rigged to be non caring and it is totally legal in the United States. I doubt that anyone will get the compensation they deserve from TEPCO, but at least it's technically (legally) possible. In the United States it's already impossible even before an incident has occurred.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:11:07 PM

@tippytoe I don't even know how it works in the uk .... but I am going to find out
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 8:15:18 PM

I've been looking for anything written up on it and have not been able to find it. It was just something I noticed Arnie mention in passing. When you start looking at plant ownership you will start to find they seem to be owned by sub companies and as LLCs.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:15:30 PM

@tippytoe I will finish shopping and look
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 8:17:15 PM

It's basically a license to send everyone affected a 300 yen check and say. Hey, that's all we had in the bank after dividing it up evenly. Sorry we destroyed your lives and livelihoods. Enjoy the Big Mac though.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:18:38 PM

@tippytoe exactly. the NRC allowed it. There are a couple of US laws regarding nuke companies having to pay up to a set amount in an accident and whatever the US nuclear accident plan is. I think they pay into a fund. But this shell company thing should be illegal. If an individual tried to hide assets from lawsuits this way they would get hauled off to jail. It is expressly illegal for an individual to do something like that.
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 8:20:46 PM

@lilymunster, this is why this story needs to be told and cannot be swept under the rug. It exposes how corruption in government works, the dangers of nuclear power, and ultimately that citizens need to watchdog literally everything if there is any hope of getting a fair deal anywhere. It's unfortunately a fact that large companies have money, power and influence. They use it through government to socialize risk and maximize their profits at the expense of the average person. It seems the line between corporation and government is very thin. You have this revolving door where heads of companies get into a position to regulate industry and write the rules in their favor. When things blow up in their face everyone asks why the gov't doesn't crack down and set them straight. The regulators are part of the industry in the modern industrialized world. I think there is a ton to be learned and investigated by citizens everywhere it's not just limited to nuclear power and Japan.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:34:30 PM

Getting a lil' off topic. But that's my two cents. Thanks to everyone for keeping the story alive.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 8:36:58 PM

@tippytoe you say it well
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 8:41:23 PM

@tippytoe yes. Well said. The legal games going on in the US are just more of the huge problem. Most people don't realize the liability issue and mini-company dodge being used and are totally shocked when they find out. If anyone has time to dig up the statues involved I would be more than happy to write something up so facts can be used to hammer on this issue.
by lillymunster 10/26/2011 9:10:29 PM

Press Release (Oct 26,2011)
Receipt of instruction document from NISA on"Regarding Reinvestigation of Mistakes in Reports of Emergency Countermeasures for Safety"
www.tepco.co.jp
I woill visit nisa as tepco are reserving the right to not provide an english translation

On September 15, 2011, we received an instruction document titled
"Regarding the Investigation of the Mistakes in the Reports of Emergency
Countermeasures for Safety (Instruction)*" from the Nuclear and Industrial
Safety Agency (NISA) of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.
In accordance with this instruction, we investigated the mistakes and
found two mistakes concerning the installation level of the main equipment
in the report of the emergency countermeasures for safety at Fukushima
Daini Nuclear Power Station.
We have already informed the result to NISA on September 28th.
(Previously announced on September 15 and 28)
Today, we received an instruction document titled"Regarding the
reinvestigation of the Mistakes in the Reports of Emergency
Countermeasures for Safety (Instruction)*" from NISA of the Ministry of
Economy, Trade and Industry.
We will conduct thorough investigation based on this instruction and
report the result to NISA soon.

End

* Instruction document
Investigation of the mistakes in the reports of the emergency
countermeasures for safety (instruction)
(September 14, 2011, No.5)

Reinvestigation of the mistakes in the reports of the emergency
countermeasures for safety (instruction)
(October 25, 2011, No.2)
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 9:19:50 PM

Site interviews about Safety Culture
−Discussions on sites where safety should be assured−
January, 2004
Secretariat
Nuclear Safety Commission
docs.google.com
.
“Summary Report on the Post-Accident Review Meeting on the Chernobyl .... problems on safety culture from the series of errors caused by the Tokyo ..... in normal operations and in emergencies, so that they can always make ...... reinvestigate the conventional policy of not treating safety culture directly ...
.
found the above whilst trawling I think we will find that nothing has changed
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 9:25:03 PM

@lilymunster, I found this document, NRC’s Liability Insurance Requirements for Nuclear Power Plants Owned by Limited Liability Companies. It finds, "Of the 103 operating nuclear power plants, 31 are owned by 11 limited liability companies. Three energy corporations—Exelon, Entergy, and the Constellation Energy Group—are the parent companies for eight of these limited liability companies. These 8 subsidiaries are the licensees or co- licensees for 27 of the 31 plants." In Appendix 1 it shows nuclear plant ownership, if it is owned as an LLC and who the parent company is. www.gao.gov
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 9:32:18 PM

tepco are moving 26tons of uranium spent fuel from kk it doesnt say where it is going www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 10/26/2011 9:34:56 PM

In a nutshell, it appears that Entergy, Exelon, and Constellation are using shell LLC companies for ownership of individual power plants. There is appears to be some legalese between "owner" and "operator". The only thing the NRC has to say is that they will license you as long as you show proof of a $300 million dollar insurance policy in accordance with the Price-Anderson Act.
by tippytoe 10/26/2011 9:37:39 PM