Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2892

@Pedro Jesus, that's not how gamma-spectroscopy testing is done. You seem to assume that gamma-spec is so unreliable that single tests are untrustworthy and thus dozens need to be done over weeks to get some statical average. Lol! You're just making that up unless you can show otherwise.
If it took weeks to test a single sample, it would cost people thousands of dollars to get samples tested. But it doesn't. Gamma-spec is highly accurate and false results on a calibrated machine with lead-enclosed samples are simply not an issue. You shouldn't be trashing an extremely reliable and accurate technology that has a lot of relevance to our research here.
by Ian 1/21/2012 2:53:37 PM

TEPCO urged to compensate for tainted building material in Fukushima

Wearing protective gear, officials measured airborne radiation levels, detecting up to 40 microsieverts per hour of radiation. They took some samples of stones to check contamination levels in detail.

mdn.mainichi.jp
by Ian 1/21/2012 2:54:40 PM

Its COLD in South Dakota today!
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:05:18 PM

Bo if your still around do you have a link for the artist in your post below?
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:08:17 PM

@Ian , in PJ's defense, when the radioactivity is very low, you may have to extend the count time. Remember the count error equals the square root of the counts, and you wish to end up with errors equal or smaller than 5 percent. Count times of 20 minutes per sample are not unusual. In addition, you would want to test tissue from at least six carcasses per location. Depending on the number of locations, this may add up to days and weeks of counting alone. On the other hand, you are correct that they could have looked at some candidate radionuclides to get a glimpse of what to expect.
by Peter 1/21/2012 3:10:15 PM

@Ian , you cannot let people live in this building. What mess!
by Peter 1/21/2012 3:11:24 PM

@lilly, the artist did the piece for Tri-Valley CARE, the downwinder group from Livermore Lab. I got it on their FB page: www.facebook.com
by bo 1/21/2012 3:11:38 PM

The head of the group is my friend Marylia, I can ask her is she knows more about his work.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:12:06 PM

@bo thanks, thinking of compiling an article with some of the creative things that have come out of Fukushima. Have you seen the effort to put a big mural on the cactus dome?
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:12:43 PM

@lilly, I checked out your post on the iodine finding yesterday. Such findings are definitely keepers and it would be extremely helpful to know how she got to this result precisely and that she would repeat the measurement today.
by Peter 1/21/2012 3:15:18 PM

@lilly I think that is a great idea. Don't know about the cactus dome thing, what's that? Also, I will be in Seattle in a few weeks and there is an exhibition there of art done by Hanford downwinders. Here is a link to that show: toxipedia.org
by bo 1/21/2012 3:17:16 PM

Here is the link to the iodine finding from yesterday: www.scribblelive.com
by Peter 1/21/2012 3:17:51 PM

Also, check out this google translate page about a Japanese art group called "chim-pom" translate.google.com

The Okamoto work is about the bombing of Hiroshima. It is huge and in Shibuya station, where one million people pass every day.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:18:41 PM

@Peter I think Ian found the link originally and may know where it was shared from. I may see if there is a way to contact the blog writer and see if we can connect on information sharing.
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:20:33 PM

@bo the group is called Bikini Lines, they are doing a crowd sourced art project to raise funds and vote on the final submitted design The idea is to paint something big enough to be seen from space on the concrete nuclear waste dome on the Marshal Islands www.bikinilines.net
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:22:08 PM

@Peter I passed on the Iodine finding to some of the people working in the zone. They were told by TEPCO that with winter it was "too cold" for radiation to distribute around the area. They said they didn't believe it and TEPCO is lying as usual. So now "cold" is TEPCO's new excuse that everything is fine! :-)
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:24:19 PM

@lilly, wonderful. Thanks. This is right up my alley!
by bo 1/21/2012 3:24:34 PM

@bo do you know any more about the Chicago Symposium, is it open to the public?
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:25:09 PM

@lilly yes it is. And it is timed to be when the G8 is in Chicago. If you go, I'll connect you to some great people I know there. I may go too.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:27:23 PM

@bo I am seriously thinking about going. I am always up for an excuse to go to Chicago. :-) The speakers they have lined up so far sound really interesting.
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:28:44 PM

@lilly the people putting the conference on are truly wonderful people. they would be very happy to meet you. I'll keep you posted if i go.

Also, I am a native Chicagoan, and it will be Cubs season!

Although they are probably already mathematically eliminated.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:31:27 PM

@bo sounds good. I think Lucas Hixxon was possibly going to go, he is the one that originally posted it. He's the guy that runs Enformable and has been mucking through all the NRC FOIA documents from the early months of the disaster.
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:34:53 PM

@lilly, cool. I wondered who ran that site. I'll post more info hear on the conference as it becomes available. You can see if you look through the blog that they have been posting a lot on Fukushima since it began.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:37:05 PM

@bo they have a good list of resources in their links.
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:40:09 PM

A bit related to the Cactus Dome issue-this March 1st, the anniversary of the Bravo test in the Marshall Islands, I am facilitating an hour long Skype conversation between students in the Marshall Islands and students in Hiroshima. This is the first of several such events that will include students from other radiation affected communities such as in Australia, the US, and Kazakhstan. The goal is for young people in these communities to develop friendships with young people in other such communities, in hopes that these ties may enable community linkage and activism when they grow older.
by bo 1/21/2012 3:42:34 PM

UK nuclear subsidies being fought on the grounds that they violate competition regulations! www.bbc.co.uk
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:43:56 PM

@bo that is a great idea...
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 3:44:23 PM

@Pedro Jesus, gamma scintillators routinely cite the statical accuracy of their rapid results at 95% confidence per result. If statistically significant results can be had within minutes or seconds, there's no reason to believe it takes weeks of gathering scores of results from a sample to acquire sufficient data upon which to do statistical analyses to look for significance.

Here's an example of a gamma scintillator citing above 97% confidence for the results it gets within 1 second:

"The SAM 935 utilizes advanced gamma-spectroscopy technology and a proprietary Quadratic Compression Algorithm (QCC) within the system's firmware to accurately and reliably identify isotopes within 1 second. This technique insures minimal false alarms and confidence levels above 97% even when users are detecting and identifying weak sources below background levels of intensity." www.berkeleynucleonics.com
by Ian 1/21/2012 3:46:28 PM

@lillymunster , I did post already. There are some cogent comments under the post worthwhile reading. It is quite possible that the iodine-131 is misidentified. Other radionuclides with similar spectra and longer half-lives could taint the measurement. One cogent comment was to have a sample stored away for a week. If the snow truly contains iodine-131, the counts at the iodine peaks should notably diminish in that time.
by Peter 1/21/2012 3:55:34 PM

And that scintillator I cite below is portable. So they could take it and on camera hold it to several sick seals, one at a time, and tell us within minutes if there was any appreciable Cs137 in them. The cesium gamma rays would pass right out of their bodies and be detected by the scintillator. As well, they test people for internal radionuclides with machines you sit in for a brief period. There may be good reasons why it takes weeks for their results, but we could know if the seals are contaminated with levels of Cs137 likely to cause harm within minutes.
by Ian 1/21/2012 4:11:45 PM

With the Fukushima crisis the Japanese people will become experts in the detection of low-level ionizing radiation. I attached the mehtodologically most interesting comments to the ameba post:
by Peter 1/21/2012 4:38:27 PM

the return button got me! This is the original post ameblo.jp and below are the technically most informed comments:
24. 214 could lead
I have been described by Dr. Mihoko Nojiri, Twitter, lead-214 and iodine-131 is easily included in the snow, it can not be distinguished in this analysis. To quote this article, I conclude that floating around accidental tweet danger, please add the effect may also lead us 214. (Of course, it is not safe and therefore can not affirm, because I could drop a credit or blog here)

34. About the possibility of false positive iodine-131 and cesium 134
Radioactivity monitoring stations Kokubunji citizens, children Mirai deputy monitoring stations (technical staff), Yukihiro Maeda and My name. In rainwater is 214 and 214 includes a lead-bismuth is the daughter nuclides of radon 222. Lead-214 352keV, bismuth 214 and γ-rays emitted during the decay of 609keV. 214 352keV γ-rays emitted can not lead to discrimination germanium semiconductor detector should be located close to releasing the energy value of iodine-131 and 364keV. 609keV release of bismuth, we have close to 214 as well as the release of cesium-134 to 605keV. False case for cesium 131 and iodine 134 radionuclide effects of these natural phenomena are often found at the beginning. 26.8-minute half-life of 214 Pb, 214 Bi half-life of several hours or more after 19.9 minutes after sample collection so short, we will propose that the wait for re-measured the attenuation of these nuclides. I think also a good way to measure for more than a few hours after boiling to remove the parent nuclide of radon attributable to the more tightly. The detection of cesium-137 can also be raised as a possibility of contaminated soil contamination.

37.'s Nuclear physics expert
Lead-214 and iodine-131 is indeterminable because the energy is near.The snow that contains a lot of lead and bismuth. I have explained again and again and again at twitter.com #! / Mihoko_Nojiri I Serve?
by Peter 1/21/2012 4:39:57 PM

@Peter this is such an interesting aspect to a nuclear accident. People have easy access to detection equipment and world wide communication in so many ways. It is impossible to control information, lie to people or manipulate what is going on. People can find out for themselves.
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 4:40:17 PM

@lillymunster , that is exactly my impression.
by Peter 1/21/2012 4:41:24 PM

So lead and bismuth can give a false iodine reading in a germanium detector?
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 4:42:23 PM

@lillymunster , yes because the energy peaks are overlapping with iodine-131. The short lived ones can be excluded by a repeated measurement on the next day. Iodine-131's half-life is roughly eight days which means that the counts it contributes to the measurement halve in a week. So if you retest from the same sample after a week and the counts will not halve, you know it is not iodine.
by Peter 1/21/2012 4:52:22 PM

...upon further reflection I doubt that the short-lived radionuclides contributed much to the result. Between the end of the snow fall and the measurement, ten half-lives, that is five hours, may have passed.
by Peter 1/21/2012 5:15:33 PM

@Peter so the really short ones would be out of the picture but anything longer would need more time vs. count analysis to determine what it is?
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 5:20:31 PM

Going through video 4 of the scope effort. They seem to get some OK images looking up but anything trying to look down gets heavy white out and interference. There is some "white out" that is reflection of the light but also some that seems to be the white out dean mentioned
by lillymunster 1/21/2012 5:22:12 PM

@lillymunster , yes, the poster was counting 20 minutes which should give a decent result.
by Peter 1/21/2012 5:45:34 PM

As to the white out, much of this is reflected light and some stems from droplets on the lens. It is difficult to come to any conclusions. But we sure see much rain and plenty steam. Water seems boiling somewhere.
by Peter 1/21/2012 5:51:12 PM