Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 1091

@edano the government are being fed codswallop by tepco - they know nothing of nuclear and they are taking tepco's word for it that burying is fine - tepco of course are liable for clean up costs
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:12:17 AM

@nancy www.nisa.meti.go.jp bugger to download so tell me when you have it safe and I will close my tab, tried my best to download and upload as googledoc but no luck
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:13:35 AM

me too... what's up? kon bon wa--good evening
by carabnr 5/11/2011 12:15:44 AM

Seconding es, that was a great interview on RT bo! Thanks for stepping up to bat!
by Ian 5/11/2011 12:15:46 AM

@elainekirk : i remember how they exchanged soil here in europe after chernobyl. just turning it around, is a cheap trick.
by Edano 5/11/2011 12:16:32 AM

@Ian The reactor containment is built down into the ground and the rest is built up around it. I don't think the containment bulb would tip over drastically (but never say never). But the outer wall structure plays a role in supporting the SFP Those outer walls are losing their bracing by way of the roof and the north and south walls that were damaged and seem to be slowly getting worse. As the wall structures (and the parts the SFP ties to) get worse it becomes more of a worry. Someone mentioned last night that the building skin is more missing on the south side of 4. Either they have removed bits to inspect or the ongoing damage has been making parts of the wall panels crumble there.
by Nancy 5/11/2011 12:16:51 AM

@carabnr kon bon wa. @es and @Ian thanks. It's only cause of the great work of everyone here that I can repeat what I have been told.
by bo 5/11/2011 12:20:20 AM

@Nancy there's more missing on the north side too
by UKVal 5/11/2011 12:20:35 AM

@Nancy I bet the intense heat, radiation, salt water, and earthquakes are accelerating the whole process. It does appear to be buckling along the midline and on south side.
by LM 5/11/2011 12:20:36 AM

@elainekirk @Edano The fact that there is a 'lack of government disposal guidelines for irradiated soil' is a major problem here - Japanese legislation only covers what to do with contaminated soil at NPPs so there are no guidelines in place for where contaminated soil outside of nuclear facilites should go to. One would hope the GoJ is urgently trying to address this issue.
by es 5/11/2011 12:21:35 AM

too much to follow, need to look back, ill be back.You all build on the tremedousness of us all.
by carabnr 5/11/2011 12:23:47 AM

Oh look where NISA send all the in depth stuff in a spirit of international cooperation!! there is no damn wonder we cant find anything ...
www-emergency.iaea.org
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:24:06 AM

@Bo I lived in Tokyo during my high school years and visited Hiroshima twice. How are the people there dealing with this crisis? Theirs is such a unique perspective. I have fond memories of my visits there and I can't help but be reminded of the A-Bomb Dome every time I see close-ups of Fukushima.
by LM 5/11/2011 12:24:44 AM

@es I do wish the people would realise this is ongoing and demand it is cleaned up properly to ensure their children have the best chances in the future
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:25:52 AM

@Elaine K -might have guessed it would be nicely in accessible..(hollow laugh..)
by UKVal 5/11/2011 12:26:07 AM

@elainekirk I have the NISA document downloaded and saved. It has a bunch more data than we have found elsewhere. They make the odd statement that some Mar 11 data was lost? Likely the holes in data on Mar 11 on some reactors. But no explanation how or why they lost data. I will make sure Dean gets a copy.
by Nancy 5/11/2011 12:26:19 AM

thanks Nancy I nearly gave up but something drove me on musta been the duck tape
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:27:21 AM

@elainekirk WTF! I can understand the IAEA not making public certain data on non-proliferation or national security reasons (info on working reactors etc.) But why the data on Fukushima is blocked.. Don't we all through our governments pay these chuckleheads?
by Nancy 5/11/2011 12:29:26 AM

i repeatedly think the crisis magment in chernobyl was better and faster than in fukushima. faster evacuation, much bigger exclusion zones, complete soil exchange and a fast realization of a sarcophagus. tepco is just fumbling and fooling around.
by Edano 5/11/2011 12:31:18 AM

exactly and that doc says clearly at the bottom that that is where info is sent . So who thinks if we put pressure on getting info from our govs , iaea etc that we may by default empower Japanese families to stand up and say 'this is not good enough'?

by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:32:16 AM

@LM cool. People here have complicated reactions. The hibakusha, for example, have been so focused on the nuclear abolition issue that there haven't been many public statements. I'm sure seeing the people being scanned for contamination brings up a lot of difficult feelings. There is a strong anti-nuclear movement here focused on the proposed plant of the Chuden company in Yamaguchi, but that is mostly younger environmental activists.
by bo 5/11/2011 12:33:36 AM

that greenpeace data will be out anyday now they have started analysing lets hope it creates enough noise and people ride on the back of it, I am not a great greenpeace fan but they are the only powerful voice at the moment
AGREED EDANO
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:34:46 AM

hi to all... any buildings fallen yet?
by dean 5/11/2011 12:38:08 AM

@Bo Perhaps the youth movements might give more weight to the hibakusha. I suppose there is hope. Sometimes I think a trip through the Hiroshima Museum should be mandatory...virtual or otherwise. The first time I visited I was with the travel club from the American School in Japan and I convinced my parents (children of WWII) to come on a second trip. It was transforming for them...given their pre-conceived notions. I hope to bring my kids someday...Thank you again for doing the work you do.
by LM 5/11/2011 12:43:21 AM

@dean ooo I must go see
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:45:58 AM

enjoy the read elaine
by dean 5/11/2011 12:51:20 AM

@Dean, emailed you the doc Elaine found with some of the Mar 11 reactor stats.
by Nancy 5/11/2011 12:53:44 AM

@LM One thing we found here in the states was that the two groups of people who showed up for political social justice campaigns were young people and retired people. It is an interesting mix and can be fairly powerful when the two age groups are both demanding change together.
by Nancy 5/11/2011 12:55:09 AM

ty Nancy.. you know the more I study and uncover as much as I can the more we will see what happened and how quickly things deteriorated during that first hour, the water level within the core, the rapid heating of the fuel once uncovered.
by dean 5/11/2011 12:57:09 AM

@Nancy I agree. It just might be the necessary catalyst.
by LM 5/11/2011 12:59:29 AM

@Nancy so true the young and the old have more in common than they would have us think.
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 12:59:46 AM

@Nancy, yea, the reactor vessel will probably hold up. It might even be possible that its holding up the building shell. It's located close to the west wall, nw corner, which is the left side from our view. So the wall is leaning toward it and it probably would take too much tip angle to have the wall contact the vessel. That might actually be good as it means when/if it all topples, it might not hit the vessel hard.
by Ian 5/11/2011 1:02:35 AM

there is a lot coming out of #3
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 1:02:43 AM

he reactor that was not cooling properly in Japan, the Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 reactor, was a boiling-water type. How are these different from pressurized-water reactors in terms of cooling?
Particularly useful to boiling-water reactors is a system that is steam driven. It does not require an outside power source. Steam generated by the heat of a cooling down reactor has enough force to run a turbine, which then runs a pump that provides coolant to the core. That sort of system is supposed to withstand an earthquake, and that can run for an extended period. It's a self-limiting condition. That system does use batteries for the controls, but it can also be operated manually. So even in the face of a complete station blackout—you don't have any power at all—there are methods for using the steam-driven pump to continue to keep cooling going. WOW now that's a comment.. this is another document I'm using for my study
by dean 5/11/2011 1:04:18 AM

@Nancy @Elaine I guess that explains why most of my friends are from the protest generation and are at least 20 years older than me. LOL
by LM 5/11/2011 1:05:02 AM

@Ian the rpv is not in the corner, it is pretty centered.
by Edano 5/11/2011 1:05:15 AM

@LM and @Nancy my colleague and I are working on a project called the Global Hibakusha project in which we try to create dialogue especially among third generation hibakusha here in Hiroshima and also in numerous nuclear testing communities around the world. We are working to facilitate communication and artistic production between young hibakusha so that they might use web2.0 tools to obtain a louder, and more global voice.
by bo 5/11/2011 1:05:44 AM

@bo that sounds good]
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 1:08:03 AM

@Bo Perfect! Social media/technology are really facilitating change globally. Bravo.
by LM 5/11/2011 1:09:59 AM

@lm we looked like missing a bus yesterday but my girls ran ahead and the bus waited , when I got there I thanked the driver and she replied ''oh I dont mind yur daughter asked me if I could wait for her mother because she was quite old'' the bus was in uproar. So I guess I am part of the protest generation though methinks I skipped actually growing up
by elainekirk 5/11/2011 1:11:28 AM

ha ha @ elaine... that reminds me.. I was walking into a grocery store and down an isle, a mother was pushing one of those carts what has the little kiddie car and her young son... probably 5-6 was in it... they came around the corner when I did and her son pointed and said.. MOMMY DON'T HIT THAT OLD MAN...
by dean 5/11/2011 1:14:01 AM