Japan Earthquake

Japan Earthquake | Page 2422

@RonD , NBC is mistaken. At the public Sep. 8 meeting, Dominion explained that did not know yet for sure what incident precisely tripped the reactors. They narrowed the suspects down to about four, among which a pertubation of outside power by the quake looms large. I can't explain it better, but it may have been a breaker or a transformer.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:17:23 AM

Found this tidbit in the NRC FOIA

At high suppress.ion poo0 temiperatures
(around 200 degrees 'F) unstable condensation
loads may cause loss of suppression pool
integrity, An other suppressi on pool limitation
to be considered is the qualification temperature
of the RCIC and HPCI pumps which are used
durina recirculation. Suppression pool
temperatures may also be limited by liet positive
suc tion head (NPSH) requirements of the pumps
in the systems required to effect recoverT, once
ac powver is restored.
pbadupws.nrc.gov

So the suppression pool fails at a fairly low temp.
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:17:47 AM

@Peter @lillymunster thats what I thought from the NRC webcast meeting
by RonD 9/29/2011 2:18:47 AM

@lillymunster well spotted @all I am taking to my bed now g'night all
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 2:19:20 AM

@lillymunster , Dominion believes that the neutron flux changes were the result of the trip signals.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:19:31 AM

not sure if this link will work, NBC News from the web www.msnbc.msn.com
by RonD 9/29/2011 2:20:21 AM

@RonD , one real scary part of the story is that the seismic recorder and the annunciator in the control room failed owing to loss of power exactly during the quake. The crew was left second guessing.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:22:13 AM

@Peter yep, that part of the meeting sounded confusing and a bit scary, when you try to design a fault tolerant system there are always unexpected dependencies between systems
by RonD 9/29/2011 2:24:20 AM

@you...result of the trip signals. I meant that some yet unidentified trip signal caused the control and safety rods to move into the core, which caused the neutron flux changes, which closed the main steam valves, which initiated the shutdown,:)

by Peter 9/29/2011 2:24:40 AM

@lillymunster , that is why these Residual Heat Removers are so important. Among other things, like SFP cooling, they cool the wetwell water through heat exchange with, at Fukishima, seawater. The seawater pumps sit by the dock, and the tsunami wiped them out.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:29:18 AM

They're lowering in a containment-wall panel right now : www.youtube.com
by Ian 9/29/2011 2:36:48 AM

@Peter I was surprised (sort of) that the suppression chamber heat max was so low 200f. But it doesn't have any natural cooling system so the water is starting to boil at
200f
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:37:03 AM

Check out teppycam - they have been putting up panels pretty quick today. www.tepco.co.jp
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:38:39 AM

@Peter I read somewhere that the intake pipes were silted up by the tsunami. And as we saw with the jellyfish incidents, if they clog the intake screens the pumps are useless too
by M.I.A. 9/29/2011 2:39:26 AM

@M.I.A. In some cases the pumps were wiped off the dock
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:43:12 AM

lilly, also re the convoluted relations for emergency preparedness, you should read the NISA report. It is a grave reality check. The plant inspectors scrambled right after the quake to this fabled HQ, to which they did not have a key, which had no communications and when the rad levels rose, the boys felt pressed to decamp to a new location. Then they had a hard time reaching decision makers in Tokyo and teling them where they were, plus the first responders with whom they were supposed to work were beyond reach or busy with the consequences of the quake and tsunami. Things fell eventually more in place on Sunday, that is after two days. Ample room for improvements.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:43:38 AM

@Peter the generator for the building was not earthquake resistant. So it didn't work so they had no power, thus no communication equipment.
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:46:06 AM

Off to bed!
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 2:59:18 AM

@lillymunster , no sounds like a pretty conventional place in a nearby village. I do not know how this is organized neither in Japan nor in the States. Since I worked as a first responder in Germany, I know that each county or city there has got an command and control center for emergencies, which is commonly part of a major fire station or a dispatch center for ambulances. The center coordinators can alert the various fire brigades throughout the county. There are special radio frequencies reserved for states of emergency to which all first responders must switch. The command center collects intelligence and coordinates the different services in their responses. The coordinators also know how to get in touch with other counties and state agencies. The alerting procedures and some fake deployment are practiced periodically. I imagine it not much different in Japan and assume that most actual pros were bogged down with the quake and tsunami response.
by Peter 9/29/2011 2:59:58 AM

bump
by Mid Valley 9/29/2011 5:25:00 AM

bump
by Pedro Jesus 9/29/2011 7:52:45 AM

thats a triple bump
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 8:08:45 AM

qualified ND's from tepco blimey whatever next www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:14:16 AM

Gov't to put off trial run of Monju nuclear reactor beyond FY 2011

TOKYO, Sept. 29, Kyodo

The science ministry will postpone beyond the current fiscal year the planned trial run of the Monju prototype fast-breeder reactor in Fukui Prefecture in the aftermath of an accident involving the reactor last year and the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant crisis, ministry sources said Thursday.

The decision was made after a device that fell into the reactor in August last year was retrieved with much difficulty and because the reactor must undergo a stress test following the disaster at the Fukushima plant, according to the sources at the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

The original plan was to test-operate the reactor in Tsuruga, Fukui at 40 percent of its output capacity in the year through March. english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:17:04 AM

english.kyodonews.jp

Collective relocation proposed in tsunami-hit city
Photo taken on Sept. 28, 2011 shows a downtown area of the Ogatsucho district in the city of Ishinomaki, Miyagi Prefecture, which was devastated by the March 11 tsunami. The hill seen in the background is a candidate site for proposed collective relocation for Ogatsucho residents. The district has lost more than 60 percent of its population since the disaster as many residents have moved out. (Kyodo) english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano via English.kyodonews.jp 9/29/2011 9:18:25 AM

a bus on the roof ....
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:18:44 AM

TEPCO overestimates cost by 618 bil. yen over 10 years: panel

TOKYO, Sept. 29, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s estimate of costs required to generate electricity has exceeded actual spending by 618.6 billion yen over the last 10 years, a draft report by a government panel overseeing the utility's cost-cutting efforts showed Thursday.

The finding indicated that households in the company's service area may have been overcharged for their electricity use, as electricity rates in the country are decided under a mechanism that allows utilities to pass on power generation costs, such as personnel and fuel costs, plus a certain margin to consumers.

The draft stated that the major reason for the overestimate was expenses for repairing facilities. Fuel costs were not included in the estimate. english.kyodonews.jp
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:21:01 AM

shaking my poor head again...
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:21:58 AM

@Edano so not only do they have to beg tepco for compensation their ability to save money over the past ten yrs has been blighted by tepco's thievery
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:23:52 AM

i won't ask where the money is gone, no i won't ask.
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:26:08 AM

@Edano no don't ask
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:27:54 AM

@Edano have they got the panelson the seaside of #1 perchance?
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:29:37 AM

ah, there it is:

$130,000 cash meant for Tohoku left in city hall

About 130,000 dollars in cash was left at the municipal office in Sakado City, Saitama Prefecture, northwest of Tokyo, with a note asking that the money be used for people in the Tohoku region, hit by the March earthquake and tsunami.

City authorities say a plastic shopping bag containing 10 bundles of one million yen was found inside a restroom on the first floor last Thursday.

The anonymous donor says in the note that he lives alone and that he wants the people of Tohoku to use the money.

After consulting with police, city authorities decided not to report the money as a lost article but to donate it to the disaster-affected people through the Japanese Red Cross Society.
The city will hold the money for about 3 months in case the person who left it comes forward.

A city official said the discovery of such a large amount of cash was surprising but moving, and that the city wants to respect the donor's wishes.

Thursday, September 29, 2011 16:33 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:29:40 AM

Panel says no need for TEPCO to up utility rates

A government panel evaluating Tokyo Electric Power Company's finances is expected to present a report stating that it does not need to raise utility fees for the rest of this fiscal year that ends in March.

The advisory panel has been investigating the financial situation of the utility to oversee paying compensation to victims of the Fukushima nuclear disaster.

The panel is due to submit the report to Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda early next month.

Sources close to the panel say that it estimates that compensation payouts will total 47 billion dollars by the end of this fiscal year. And it notes 10 billion dollars would be added for every year efforts to contain the accident continue.
The focus of the panel's investigation was on the possible need to raise electricity rates.

The panel made calculations based on 9 scenarios. They included cases where operations resume at a nuclear power plant in Niigata Prefecture, and those where they did not.

The panel says in the event of no reactors being restarted, the utility would slip into the red at the end of fiscal 2012 if it does not raise utility bills.

The panel is expected to emphasize that regardless of the resumption of nuclear reactors, TEPCO can stay solvent until the end of March without resorting to rate hikes.

The report is expected to ask the company to implement cost-cutting measures if it seeks to raise utility fees.

Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:33 +0900 (JST)
www3.nhk.or.jp
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:32:27 AM

@Edano but the Japan red cross doesnt have a good track record in handing the money out they have much money in their vaults and one area they decided to to put the money in their coffers if I recall
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:38:25 AM

@elainekirk better give it tepco then.
by Edano 9/29/2011 9:40:32 AM

@Edano thats where it will end up even if the people get it theoretically it is replacing what tepco took from them ........
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:42:37 AM

@Edano they have revised a report on #2 can you fathom it ? www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 9:56:13 AM

@elainekirk oooh no, it is ununderstandable. some corrections about the seismic movement at #2 during the earthquake. i cannot see if the new numbers are higher or lower. the movement has been 30% above or below design. ???
by Edano 9/29/2011 10:02:55 AM

@Edano I will look for an english version
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 10:11:50 AM

there is a partial correction here from aug 11th www.tepco.co.jp
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 10:14:45 AM

must get myself ready
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 10:27:45 AM

Morning! (afternoon-evening)
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 11:23:18 AM

@lillymunster morning just rushing out see you in a while
by elainekirk 9/29/2011 11:36:26 AM

A reminder in case people stop by this morning that were not here last night. The NRC has released a bunch of emails and documents related to the early days of the Fuku disaster. They can be found here www.nrc.gov
by lillymunster 9/29/2011 11:42:15 AM